I have been running KDE neon on my 2011 Mac mini for the last couple of years and would definitely recommend it.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Don't forget... Windows 10 is still Windows!
- Thread starter TSE
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I have been running KDE neon on my 2011 Mac mini for the last couple of years and would definitely recommend it.
This is why, or a large part of why, Windows has a bad reputation... people running the cheapest hardware with poorly supported drivers or poor adherence to standards, then getting upset that Windows isn't reliable.
I'm old enough to remember how awful Windows was in the late 90's and early 2000's. But rolling in to 2020, it's been just as stable as my Macs have been -- at least on my quality hardware.
Not being a Microsoft apologist or convert, but just being pragmatic. I've had to move to Windows because I can't get the price/performance ratio I want out of Apple anymore. Unfortunately, my 22 year old daughter who is finishing college and works as a graphic designer & video producer requires MacOS (Final Cut X, etc). I just spent basically $4200 on a high-end 27" iMac as a graduation gift for her, with almost the same specs as the $2600 I spent on my PC + display + misc.
That's part of my sentiments, I find it ridiculous that Apple is still struggling with thermal issues same as it was over 10 years ago. Worst of all, Apple's own doing...
For the asking price I expect the likes of the 16" MBP to perform well, yet the same overheating, undercooling issues are still there. Lot of people banging their heads against wall just to run an external display.
Q-6
Hand holding.... or not having to constantly worry about things you don’t have to worry about and focus on your work?
Because “hand holding” sounds like macOS is for the technically illiterate users who want everything dumbed down - and that’s not the case.
[automerge]1586851186[/automerge]
I don’t know how widespread this issue is, but still, we’re talking about operating systems here. My whole point is that Windows is not as good as macOS. But if you need PC hardware, you need it - no argument there. In that case you’ll run Windows - and it’s fine. But the fact you need/prefer PC hardware doesn’t make Windows itself better.
Last edited:
It's funny, you even see it in this thread, the solution for most people when it comes to slow W10 is reinstalling and start again. Never done that on macOS.
I agree that suggesting macOS requiring less handholding over W10 is nonsense though. I use both, always have, W10 requires more 'handholding' but then that says something.
Over many years and I am sure others are the same, people come to me with their PC/Mac woes, it is 90%+ issues with Windows, running slow, BSOD, and others. Rarely does anyone come to me with macOS issues.
Of course, we can criticize both all day, but the fact is people (general population) have no clue how to be 'smart' as someone stated when it comes to what they download/install on W10, and how that impacts performance or what to do about it when it does (other than reinstall).
I agree that suggesting macOS requiring less handholding over W10 is nonsense though. I use both, always have, W10 requires more 'handholding' but then that says something.
Over many years and I am sure others are the same, people come to me with their PC/Mac woes, it is 90%+ issues with Windows, running slow, BSOD, and others. Rarely does anyone come to me with macOS issues.
Of course, we can criticize both all day, but the fact is people (general population) have no clue how to be 'smart' as someone stated when it comes to what they download/install on W10, and how that impacts performance or what to do about it when it does (other than reinstall).
Last edited:
16" simply remains overly problematic for the price. For all the talk of simplicity users having issues with a secondary display is not acceptable, once again the cooling solution is simply inadequate which disappoints. The ghosting I don't know, equally I've seen fair number of posts calling out the 16" display which must be driven by something. I suspect as usual that there are multiple vendors with one surpassing the other in quality. Apple removed the ability to verify the display panel some years back when exactly the same issue was prevalent on the Retina's (this what I consider dumbing down)
Both OS have advantages and disadvantages, W10 you need to put more in and can get more out. Apple is slowly closing the doors. Personally I don't have much if any issue with either OS, admittedly I don't use OS X heavily these days or use the latest version. I don't tinker or mess about with them and both W10 & OS X works as expected and both can be broken by the user, although OS X is far robust in this regard.
W10 there's simply too much SW out there that's plainly poorly written, equally that's also the freedom of choice you don't have to the same level with the Mac. I fully expected as I transitioned to W10 and few Mac's to be passed on to have more questions/issues. In actuality it's been the same as the Mac's all the PC based hardware is on it's initial install, some passing the 4 year mark.
TBH on my next hardware cycle, I'll be certainly considering machines than can run Linux without any excessive work, as neither W10 or OS X ticks all the boxes these days. MS has made a lot progress and seems to be committed o the SW & HW side. Apple is far more focused on IOS devices and services which is fair enough given the revenue, equally the drop off in the quality & value the Mac represents has diminished along the journey.
Q-6
When you get to that point, if you have questions or want any advice, hit me up. I'd be happy to assist.
Purely subjective as are many of my comments, one could easily say that macOS is not as good a W10, nor would it be incorrect for many. My point is the way Apple has chose to evolve the Mac. 10 years ago the Mac was IMHO a far more useful tool to a greater audience.
As anecdotal as it maybe 10 years ago we all ran Mac's as we could and they worked well, 5 years ago a good percentage remained on the Mac, although with aging hardware. Today in 2020 I don't know of one of the guy's still on the Mac. Purely and simple they don't see the value in them and Windows has evolved significantly with more powerful and or flexible hardware.
Your workflow is specific and lends to the Mac's handling of colour centric work, for others not so much. It's all a personal choice. Said for a long time now the best thing Apple sells is Apple, hence the support of the fan base, against a plethora of issues and design errors.
Apple is very smart in dealing with people and how to appease them, especially at the Store, equally Apple rarely resolves issues as they generally replace the flawed component with exactly the same, frequently refurbished passing the buck down the road until the afflicted device ends in the hands of someone with not warranty or recourse outside of Apple and hefty repair bills and a strong recommendation to buy a new Apple XYZ...
Q-6
Within the developer community I am part of, Web Design, PHP/MySQL, the Mac still holds the crown but outside of that I see everyone on W10 and actually I see more like me using a dual approach. MBP or MM for work and a PC for everything else.
I actually found a home on W10P using Vagrant and Hyper-V to replicate my macOS environment, so far works really well and I am managing to do my work on Windows 40% of the time these days and it is very stable, no issues for months now.
I can't see myself giving up the iPad, iPhone, Watch any time soon but I am getting way more confident on Windows these days.
I actually found a home on W10P using Vagrant and Hyper-V to replicate my macOS environment, so far works really well and I am managing to do my work on Windows 40% of the time these days and it is very stable, no issues for months now.
I can't see myself giving up the iPad, iPhone, Watch any time soon but I am getting way more confident on Windows these days.
Thx might just although not so soon thx to the ongoing global issue. I'm not overly concerned on the SW side, more the hardware as it will have to be a notebook which complicates matters.
Of the three systems I now use for work purpose I only see one as potentially viable as one is a specific 360 degree 2in1 UMPC, another will run Linux however no trackpad drivers exist last I looked. This As may be ok, equally I'm reluctant to mess with it as is my primary system.
Next cycle am considering to set up the primary duel booting Linux & W10, the smaller more niche portable likely more trouble than their worth as the usage is low and hardware more specific. I do have some other hardware lying about equally only advantage with that would to become more familiar with the OS as the hardware is aged.
Q-6
These passages right here are what so many people miss or choose to ignore in the great Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux vs. BSD debate.
It's all personal choice and opinions are subjective. What is the "best" for one person may not be the "best" for the next person or everyone. As you pointed out, each OS has its strong points and its weaker points. Each of us has to decide for ourselves what we want, what we need and how best to go about finding the right OS and machine to get there.
I have no business trying to convince someone to use any OS they don't want to try. If they have questions or are interested, then I'll help. That's not to say I won't joke around from time to time. I tease my SysAdmin once in a while about making him a Linux guy from whom he is a Windows guy. But I'm not serious about it.
Last edited:
True, I'm looking more at Linux as I don't care for Apple's direction and would prefer an alternative to W10 off the mainstream as I can see the value a differing OS can bring.
Q-6
Indeed, even the comments above you about needing to reinstall windows. Just go to the macOS forum, or even the hardware forums and you'll see a large volume of posts where people are told to wipe and reinstall macOS. I've said this long ago, both platforms have their advantages and disadvantages. Linux as well, as it is a powerful os, but one with its own set of downsides.
To me wiping the system is the very last resort irrespective of OS as is time consuming. Always better to have an up to date system backup image on hand, allowing one to step back in time as needed.
Q-6
From what I see some of the better laptops for running Linux are from Lenovo and Dell. Of course that all depends on what you want from the hardware. Trackpads are a big deal in the Linux world and some people either really hate them or don't. Or they don't work as well as they do on Windows or Mac.
In my experience, Apple has mastered the trackpad with their products. Everything else I've used doesn't compare and that disappoints me a little.
But, there are solutions out there for laptops and Linux. Just need to figure out the right one.
Currently, I don't have any laptops, except a work-owned one. It's a Lenovo E530 (I think) and I absolutely hate the trackpad. It's running Arch and it works well for me.
I think the two biggest things that led me to leaving Apple altogether last year were cost vs. value of use and then customization.
My usage of a computer is really quite simple and easy. Web browsing, email and some writing in word processors/text editors. I can do all of that on macOS, Windows or Linux. But, to me, the cost of a beautiful Apple product far outweighs its value to me considering what I need it for.
The other thing is customization. I really love tinkering with the OS and making it my own unique looking thing. When I bought my first Mac in 2006, we could at least use the app Candybar to customize the dock and application icons lending to a little bit of uniqueness. But Apple clamped down hard on that and it's near impossible to do so now.
When I look at the post your desktop thread I am bored to tears because they all look the same except for the background image and different applications in the dock.
But on Linux, I have the ability, if I choose to learn -and I did, to customize literally everything about it. That's what I love most about Linux and computing in general. A quick look on Reddit at r/unixporn is amazing. Everyone who posts their screenshots are all unique and almost none look the same.
Those are the two main reasons I went to Linux full time. I bought the 2018 MacBook Air when it came out and I loved it a lot, but ended up selling a few months later. I built a far more powerful desktop machine for less than the cost of the Mac and I can do anything I want to it and the OS.
I was lucky enough in all my years to never have to reload macOS/OS X once. But, I've seen plenty of people here who needed to.
I've needed to over the course of my mac usage, sometimes it was to see if I could improve performance and sometimes it was just best as the system was messed up.
It is, time consuming to be sure, but many times its the best approach and in many respects the most efficient time wise. That is why spend days and days trying to fix something when you can just spend a few hours to wipe and reinstall.
On the Mac side, Apple has made it quite easy and fundamentally simple to do this. Windows while a higher variety of tools and utilities for backups and imaging, hasn't reached the ease and simplicity of Apple.
Yes, but what I found is that at times, the latest backup could be problematic, so to avoid duplicating the issue, I just reformat, and reinstall. Life is a bit easier nowadays simply because you can store your data on OneDrive for Windows or iCloud for the Mac.
Apple does a better cloud storage implementation or at least one that I find it superior to my needs, vs. MS and OneDrive. I've run into too many headaches with using OneDrive to mirror my desktop and My Documents directories.
I generally know when I've miss stepped, a lot of it is, I know what works and don't have too much inclination to experiment on work related systems, more importantly the systems are under my control, so if needing to blame anyone, just need to look the mirror ? In networked environments and or multiple users the equation simply gets more complex.
As for the Cloud I prefer an encrypted 3rd party solution as it has never let me down and I have granular control. Backups I always keep the last know good image and roll them forward, I also test the images as don't care for blind faith. Never had a problem with the W7 system image backup rountine, eqaully never say never...
Q-6
It's a bit like saying a battle field is like a road without the hand holding. On Windows there are so many interests at stake that for many users, it's just a dangerous place. Because it's by far the biggest platform, you get free ads thrown in with just about anything, including the OS itself. You get malware, crappy and buggy software, bloatware, etc. "You have to know what/be smart about what you're downloading/installing" is about the biggest euphemism launched in the last decade. It's better now than it used to be and my mother at 75 is managing fine (she even updated Win7 to Win10 herself) most of the time, but she's not very adventurous when it comes to downloading new apps. I fear for households of lesser IT savvy people, particularly the ones with kids who need their own PCs...
Not being able to specify which folders I always want to keep on my system makes iCloud really frustrating to use for me. Which files it chooses to download or keep seems completely arbitrary and the sync process uses a lot of CPU power. If I haven't used my laptop for a week it's really annoying having the fans spin up and the system be really hot because it has randomly decided to download a 10GB file from my archives and the files that I actually need are not available locally anymore.
OneDrive so far has been pretty reliable *touch wood*.
Its gotten a lot better, but I think for me is that I a couple of windows 10 machines and I don't want to share the same desktop and documents as they serve different purposes. I had to turn off the mirroring of my desktop folder and documents for that reason.
I have time on my hands, so maybe I'll reorganized the directory structure of my OneDrive. I have a ton a space since I pay for office, and I'm using but I'll definitely want to make it work better for me
For cloud services, I have my own Synology NAS setup.
But besides my own solution, I use pCloud. It's really configurable, reliable, and cheap.
OneDrive is better imho then iCloud, but they both are kinda wonky. I had issues or lack of features with both.
With pCloud my options are almost unlimited.
[automerge]1586870497[/automerge]
But besides my own solution, I use pCloud. It's really configurable, reliable, and cheap.
OneDrive is better imho then iCloud, but they both are kinda wonky. I had issues or lack of features with both.
With pCloud my options are almost unlimited.
[automerge]1586870497[/automerge]
Same situation as I have.
Yeah I've turned off the desktop and documents folder syncing in Windows 10 on both my installs, seemed like too much of a headache compared to organising my personal files directly in OneDrive given all the random stuff that gets dumped into the Windows Documents folder.
It used to be that iCloud Drive was my primary and I would occasionally copy across the changes by hand (too nervous to do this stuff with a symlink given iCloud Drive's goofy folder structure in the OS) to OneDrive. I've since made OneDrive my primary because I've grown tired of iCloud Drive's randomness. I also like being able to work in macOS or Windows 10 and I don't dare find out how bad iCloud Drive is in Windows given Apple left Safari (and now iTunes) to rot on that platform!
TBH the same applies for all, just W10 has a greater exposure. macOS isn't invulnerable to malware or Linux. It's in one's best interests to be weary on the internet. Irrespective of platform the key is sourcing SW from trusted sources, if not the IOS route is always an option where all is basically provided via one avenue, equally it also has it's limitation's.
W10's problem is it's covering too many bases and not able to cut the ties with the past, as much as likely MS would likely want to do, also they cant do right from wrong if they offer a more secure variant of the OS (W10S) they get ripped apart, yet if any issue with the primary OS they also get ripped apart. I don't love all that MS is doing by any means, however they are trying not is it an easy task. Bottom line only solution is a layered approach to security and education of the user regardless of platform.
Personally I use Windows own AV, bolstered by Emsisoft's Emergency Kit, Kaspersky's Virus Removal Tool, MS Sysinternals AutoRuns & Process Explorer linked to Virus Totals AV database and Voodoo Shield which is the opposite of AV where the application block all installation's/application execution unless whitelisted or granted permission by the user, also tags into the Virus Total AV database and a fast VPN & private DNS.
Only automation is Window's Defender, Voodoo Shield & VPN
Family Mac's use Avast & Bitdefender (store free edition), equally the threat vastly is diminished as the usage, mobility and data is vastly different. If was still working on a Mac I would equally bolster the security.
Q-6
Last edited:
Yeah, Microsoft is in the rotten position where it opened everything up, which made them big but vulnerable. And now they can't close it down anymore, even if they wanted too. I'm actually quite impressed by how much they were able to do with small(-ish) steps, like their own AV and regular updates. Those two by themselves solve most of regular users' problems. When my main machine was still Windows, I moved all my data to a separate partition/disk. It allowed me to format and reinstall Windows from scratch every so often, which cleared up both the unwanted "free installs" that came with legit software, as well as remnants from programs I didn't use anymore, as well as lots of other Windows garbage that remained.