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Aika

macrumors regular
Apr 7, 2006
207
177
Consider the audience, we're posting on a site named MacRumors, so there's a high degree of hatred of MS just because its MS. Hell, We still see people using the term winblows, so its clear that there are people who still take mac vs. windows to a level that questionable at best.

You almost expect that on here but I think I've read more FUD from Windows enthusiasts who refuse to let go of Windows 7 or those who begrudgingly update and then use hacks to turn off all Windows updates. Windows 10 has really brought out the crazies from every faction!

I agree with @maflynn it all comes down to personal preference, my only allegiance is to whatever or whoever is providing solutions to my needs at a point in time. If that is macos or windows I will work with either, do I prefer macOS? Yes. Do I really need it? No.

That's where I am at. I have Windows 10 Pro set up on my main Mac desktop and laptop and gotten to the point where I could switch full-time to Windows tomorrow if I needed to. If Apple insist on going all in on ARM then that's my cue to leave the Mac: I need to be able to run virtual machines and I want to play games on my computer. That prospect is a bit upsetting because I really love macOS while I merely like Windows 10 but Microsoft are going in the right direction given that I despised the previous 15 years of Windows prior to its release.

Ironically, my best experiences with Windows have involved using Mac hardware so maybe that's enabled me to change my opinion.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G4
Consider the audience, we're posting on a site named MacRumors, so there's a high degree of hatred of MS just because its MS. Hell, We still see people using the term winblows, so its clear that there are people who still take mac vs. windows to a level that questionable at best.


I can't recall having my win10 machine reboot on me when I'm in the middle of something. I set my core hours to be 6:00am to 6:00pm and no issues.

There's enough flexibility in the settings for the update process to be reasonably controllable on W10 Pro, and if all else fails flip the WiFi connection to metred. There's aspects of both macOS and W10 I like and dislike, just how it is.

Q-6
 

lcseds

macrumors 65816
Jun 20, 2006
1,198
1,075
NC, USA
What's with the Windows update thing? Do it manually, get up to use the restroom, get more coffee, and it should be booted up when you sit down again. I fail to see how many folks can be so critically busy to not let un update load. Much more time is spent at work surfing, answering personal emails, chatting with people etc. But folks complain about a 5-7 minute update. I wait just as long for MacOS to update sometimes.

It also allows some control when it's done manually (Win and Mac) which should be the preferred method for the typical power user on these threads. You can see what it wants to load and opt out of ones you don't want mucked with (Win and Mac).

I'm not saying some folks work is not critical, or time constrained, but when you work 8 hrs, it's probably more like 6-6.5 I'd guess. Be honest. All the years I've run Windows at work and home I never saw the updates as a big issue.

My opinions.
 

aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,301
6,821
Serbia
What's with the Windows update thing? Do it manually, get up to use the restroom, get more coffee, and it should be booted up when you sit down again. I fail to see how many folks can be so critically busy to not let un update load.

I update manually whenever I see there is an update. Problem is that even with that, it still somehow manages to pop out at worst possible moments. Once I stepped away from my office desk for 30 mins, when I returned, Windows was restarting and some of my work was lost. Granted, I forgot to set up peak hours on my office computer, but either way, some variant of this scenario keeps happening to me at least twice a year no matter what I do. Just recently, I had a less critical but still annoying situation - I have a gaming PC connected to my TV, I was playing a game (with a controller) and a popup to update shows up and takes a quarter of the screen. I had to get up, grab a mouse, naturally I died, etc. Of course, not half as important as loosing my work, but you can imagine I was not happy.

Not enough? Here’s a really big one: in our studio, we have a lot of computers running 3ds max. Well, at one point, Windows updated and max stopped working. The best part - update was mandatory, you could not just decide not to update, like you can on macOS. You know what Microsoft customer service said: contact Autodesk. And yes, technically they are right, it’s not their fault - but still, doesn’t help us.

And I have other Windows-using friends who can’t seem to understand why this is annoying.

Look, this Windows update system is crap. You can pretend it isn’t, it just is. I know why Microsoft is making it this way, it’s because people don’t want to update. A friend used to work at Microsoft at developer relations, he tells me the whole company has a strategically complex problem of having to constantly take care of PCs running prehistoric versions of software with people refusing to upgrade. This is their solution - taking away that choice from users. Windows is designed so that it will update, one way or the other. I understand this - but that’s not my problem. It just sucks. If you think it’s ok, you probably don’t know how well it works in macOS. Not only you‘re not forced to update, if you do decide to do it automatically, it will not interrupt your work and force close your apps, it will happen while your Mac is at sleep (good luck getting that to work in Windows). The best part - when you wake your Mac, you will literally find everything - from open apps to actual window positions - exactly as you left it. If there weren’t for a subtle, non-intrusive notification (again, a concept Windows doesn’t understand), you wouldn’t even know it was updated.
 
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c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
1,890
3,266
@aevan

For the first time I agree with you completely.
Windows 10 update is a complete mess. Even if it didn't reset drivers and general user settings, it would still be a complete mess. Just the fact that it sometimes takes hours to complete is enough for me to say it's complete BS.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,552
43,524
Just the fact that it sometimes takes hours to complete is enough for me to say it's complete BS.
What do you mean hours? Do you incur that now, or during a fresh install?

One thing that is on the top of my list is install from internet, that way you can download the latest image and not sit through a ton of updates. I don't often reinstall windows, but having an install/recover from internet like macOS would go a long way :)
 

Aika

macrumors regular
Apr 7, 2006
207
177
Regarding reboots, you still have the option to turn off "restart this device as soon as possible when a restart is required to install an update" and you can change the active hours to prevent it from restarting at a critical time.

Given that 99% of users are gigantic babies that need to be forced, kicking and screaming to update their devices I don't mind Microsoft forcing the issue.

The length of time it takes to install minor updates, the way your machine doesn't resume where you left off like in macOS and the propensity of Windows updates to screw up something on your machine are another kettle of fish. This week a Windows update got stuck on the "configuring Windows features" screen and it was only after 3 or 4 reboots (I was worried that my install was screwed) that I could get back into Windows, install the update again and that time it didn't hose the Windows start-up. By comparison, I've installed OS X updates always the day they come out for the last 15 years and never had a problem.
 
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c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
1,890
3,266
What do you mean hours? Do you incur that now, or during a fresh install?

By hours, I mean hours. There are many horror stories about Windows 10 update on internet, my isn't nearly as bad as some of those. But keep in mind, I don't boot into Windows regulary. So updates tend to pile up. And sometimes it does take hours to update.

Given that 99% of users are gigantic babies that need to be forced, kicking and screaming to update their devices I don't mind Microsoft forcing the issue.

Forcing users to update is never a solution. It's a problem.
 

iAssimilated

Contributor
Apr 29, 2018
1,227
5,960
the PNW
Oh, yeah, I thought the monthly ones, but I understand the bi-annual updates can take time

Also, I assume that is what @aevan means when he says "keeps happening to me at least twice a year". Last time I checked, Feature Updates do not follow the rules as well as Quality Updates, as they tend to want to reboot ASAP. I currently do not own any Windows computers anymore (thankfully), but I do administer Windows computers at my job. With Windows 10, MS basically gave the middle finger to enterprise users. In the past you could control "almost" everything with GPOs, now that is not the case. One example is, if you want to set default applications in Windows 10 you have to export an xml file, edit it, and import it every time Windows updates and hope it does not corrupt something on the client machine. That is lunacy! I do not hate Windows, but I am much happier not having to use it when I can. Luckily my work allows me to use a Mac, but I do have to remote another system (or run a VM) running W10 to use Active Directory Users and Computers console as well as SCCM.
 

LeeW

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2017
4,230
9,192
Over here
I'm confused at those suggesting how quick macOS updates are, not seen one take less than 30 minutes, even the 'security fixes'. Most of the Windows updates take a few minutes inc a reboot in my experience. Sure the feature updates take longer, but you are complaining about once or twice a year events that ruins your experience, wtf :)

I can't see normal W10 setting as I am on Pro, but I take it Home users don't get the update options that Pro users get? Which is to defer feature update for up to 365 days and quality updates for 30.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
I'm confused at those suggesting how quick macOS updates are, not seen one take less than 30 minutes, even the 'security fixes'. Most of the Windows updates take a few minutes inc a reboot in my experience. Sure the feature updates take longer, but you are complaining about once or twice a year events that ruins your experience, wtf :)

I can't see normal W10 setting as I am on Pro, but I take it Home users don't get the update options that Pro users get? Which is to defer feature update for up to 365 days and quality updates for 30.

Same I have very less issue with W10, and blaming the OS provider is pointless when the application vender is at fault and likely should have taken action. Exactly the same happens on OS X and is ongoing. Much of the personal use issues can be completely avoided. On the Enterprise no easy answers as that's often down to the companies structure and IT policies. I used to hate working on corporate machines as they were always on modified SW images and or excessively locked down (W7) nor the most stable.

Updates for my systems are in general fast and trouble free. The monthly updates are over and done in a couple of minutes. Feature updates vary, 1909 was more a "service patch" and took literally a few minutes. Larger Feature updates in the region of 30 minutes. Don't honestly know as I tend to defer Feature updates if working on a project and certainly not lengthy enough to raise concern. I will say if your getting into hours to update your system then there's some other underlying issues, simple as that. Non of my gear is TOTL (performance) or beyond W10 Pro, if my i7 Y series UMPC can chew through updates without being problematic so should the vast majority of hardware.

I tend to dig into it or ask, therefore I don't get random reboots, or unwanted restart requests, interruptions etc. when I'm in the middle of something. To me would make more sense to find the solution than cry about it as they are out there. When I came back to Windows (W10) in 2016 it was a whole new game and took some time to get into it again. So much so I bought a basic W10 2in1 to learn the OS again, before committing to the platform for work purposes.

I'd Like to see how Apple could manage such a diverse platform as they seem to struggle with the current limited hardware. Recently upgraded the Mac's to 10.12/10.13 it wasn't difficult or irritating, equally it wasn't a superfast or seamless installation with the 10.13 Mac Store breaking...

Ironically I don't even really like Windows that much, however I need a platform that works and doesn't present issue. I do now have the advantage that I have 100% control for both home and work systems. Mac's don't cut it as the hardware remains problematic. Linux I'd like to migrate to, equally I'd still need to virtualise or boot into W10 on the main systems. So with that logic I'll work with W10 and make the best of it.

If I had so many issues as a long-time Mac user with W10 I'd be thinking why, more seeking solutions...

Q-6
 
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user_xyz

macrumors 6502
Nov 30, 2018
385
438
Neither macOS nor Windows are flawless, but I’m glad you’re enjoying your OS of choice! :) Both Windows and macOS have come a long way.

Yea, Windows has been Flawless for me: Meaning I've always been able to fix any Problems!! Beginning with windows 3.11 windows for Workgroups!! :D

New to Mac; Mojave. I only use it for Logic Pro.

Every day stuff I use win 10.

Used to really love Safari for windows until apple stopped supporting it. Now I absolutely despise new safari and use firefox on Windows and my mac!! :)
[automerge]1587292264[/automerge]
Feature Updates can easily take an hour or two. Quality Updates not so much, unless you have a bunch of them.

The longest win 10 update for me took around 10-15 minutes at most.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,552
43,524
The longest win 10 update for me took around 10-15 minutes at most.
The bi-annual updates can take longer, I just installed version 2004 (May update) and while I didn't time it, I think it the process was north of 30 minutes.
 

Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,189
487
Elkton, Maryland
Also, I assume that is what @aevan means when he says "keeps happening to me at least twice a year". Last time I checked, Feature Updates do not follow the rules as well as Quality Updates, as they tend to want to reboot ASAP. I currently do not own any Windows computers anymore (thankfully), but I do administer Windows computers at my job. With Windows 10, MS basically gave the middle finger to enterprise users. In the past you could control "almost" everything with GPOs, now that is not the case. One example is, if you want to set default applications in Windows 10 you have to export an xml file, edit it, and import it every time Windows updates and hope it does not corrupt something on the client machine. That is lunacy! I do not hate Windows, but I am much happier not having to use it when I can. Luckily my work allows me to use a Mac, but I do have to remote another system (or run a VM) running W10 to use Active Directory Users and Computers console as well as SCCM.

One aspect of Windows 10 that really took the enterprise market by surprise is the amount of tweaks it takes to build an image or even deploy the OS. To even SysPrep a Windows 10 image, all of the provisioned apps must be removed and usually stripped via PowerShell which is a royal pain when you are attempting to save certain provisioned apps (e.g. Calculator). Then you get into the nuances of Windows 10 such as needing to disable first sign-in animation via GPO or Registry to make it even suitable for use by multiple users. I really cannot understand why Microsoft would think any IT admin would want a classroom of computers displaying "HELLO! NOW WE HAVE SOME IMPORTANT SETUP TO DO" and prompting the users to select a bunch of options they don't understand rather than just "Preparing Windows" while it builds the local profile. The real clincher with Windows 10 when we started deploying it was the elongated login times in comparison to Windows 7. Even with first sign-in animation disable, autoruns killed, etc., systems with spinning hard disks take 2-10 minutes (depending on system) to build the local profile while systems with SSDs would be done in 15-30 seconds at most. Under Windows 7, even with a spinning drive the process took no more than a minute.
 

user_xyz

macrumors 6502
Nov 30, 2018
385
438
The bi-annual updates can take longer, I just installed version 2004 (May update) and while I didn't time it, I think it the process was north of 30 minutes.

I believe I installed that last week-if it was out then?

My PC CPU is a 2500K that runs at 4.5 GHz (been running that since I built it 4 or 5 years-a long time!!)
all SSD's
Good internet=400 down

To Tell you the Truth:

It beats the Crap out of my new Mac mini 2018 with: i7/512/16
 

torana355

macrumors 68040
Dec 8, 2009
3,609
2,676
Sydney, Australia
This is all good advice, but you shouldn’t need to do all that. I haven’t reinstalled my iMac in years, I didn’t run any cleaner tools/apps, I didn’t disable anything, ran any debloaters or whatever - still works as smooth as the first day I used it. People keep saying Windows is just as good these days - but I don’t see it.
I love OSX but like any other OS it still benefits from a clean reinstall every coupe of years if used a lot. Anyone who thinks otherwise is overly bias. I have a HTPC running windows 7 that is now over 6 years old and it still runs like new but all it does is run KODI with all system updates disabled. I don't even surf the internet on it, so naturally it is less likely to slow down over time.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
I love OSX but like any other OS it still benefits from a clean reinstall every coupe of years if used a lot. Anyone who thinks otherwise is overly bias. I have a HTPC running windows 7 that is now over 6 years old and it still runs like new but all it does is run KODI with all system updates disabled. I don't even surf the internet on it, so naturally it is less likely to slow down over time.


OS X can be cleaned up, equally it takes knowledge of the OS and time. I recently revived one of my old Mac's that had returned back to me (infamous 2011 15") Still in stock configuration, however SW side had been totally screwed up by multiple users.

TBH a clean install would have been quicker, equally passed some time to sort out and get the system back up to scratch, and I suppose there's a level of satisfaction that it's last clean install was at the factory. That said I agree heavily used OS X systems do gather debriefs and worse in some hands. W10 I just set up Storage Sense how I want it and leave it be...

Q-6
 
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