Interesting quote from them. Sounds like they have no problem with giant corporations “protecting people from themselves,” but if government tries to protect people, that’s suddenly a problem. Funny how that works.
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European Parliament Votes to Support Right to Repair
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No, it shows who understands that OP’s claim that “lots of things are glued in now, nearly impossible to repair, and then there are absurd RAM prices, RAM should be removable and replaceable by the user” is full of BS lol.
1) “Lots of things are glued in now”... Wrong. No, they aren’t. Or did you mean a few things?
2) “nearly impossible to repair” Nope, just impossible for you to repair. Use a repair shop; now it’s is nearly impossible not to repair.
3) “RAM should be removable and replaceable by the user”. Oh, you mean like being socketed? Sorry, it doesn’t exist.
No memory manufacturer can make LPDDR memory that doesn’t require soldering. LPDDR4/4X/5 technologies all require that the chips be soldered. That has zero to do with Apple, though I’m sure 99% of the folks here in the Apple hate club are ignorant of that fact.
RAM is no longer even a separate component in cutting edge consumer electronics devices. In all of Apple’s iPhones, Watches, iPads, M1 Macs (and more), RAM is now just a small part of the single chip (the SoC) that incorporates many functions into a single package.
It’s one of the reasons the new $699 Apple Silicon Mac mini easily beats a $52,000 Intel Mac Pro in CPU single core benchmarks, despite the $51,000 price difference.
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True is somewhere in between. Repair does not mean doing it home but any independent repair center or skilled professional. On other hand if you wanna technology like M1 or phone, you can not expect you will have replaceable RAM.
On Apple side would be enough to add a bit more RAM and for Example iPhone 5s would be still quite performer, just battery life would suffer.
Car producers has number of rules as well so why not electronic. Advancements in humanity are more important then speed of your chips and size of RAM. My 11 years old MBP, modernized, works quite fine and recently replaced year older model where second repair of graphic chip was already not reasonable.Regular repair shop would mark it as unrepairable 5 years ago.
So sick of this red herring. Apple chooses to price upgrades higher so they can set the base price lower. It’s that simple ?♂️
The MacBook Air is $1,000 for 8GB and $1,200 for 16GB. If you would prefer a cheaper upgrade, how about $25? Sound good?
But would $1,150 for 8GB and $1,175 for 16GB really be a better pricing structure? Apple doesn’t think so, and that’s what matters.
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If your Apple product stops functioning within 2 years, Apple has to fix it or give you a new one without charging the consumer = 2 years of warranty in EU!
For instance, my 1 year and 8 months old iPhone 6s Plus got an dead pixel and screen got replaced for free at the Apple store in Amsterdam = 2 years warranty!
Well, there’s no way to use a handsaw for its intended use without creating sawdust, and sawdust is carcinogenic.
Here’s some good info, just imagine all the resins, pesticides, paint, paint strippers, glues, adhesives, waterproofing compounds, lacquers, varnishes, sealants, dyes, etc. that you didn’t realize could be a danger to you, that you never even thought of.
Wood Dust - Health Effects
Why is wood dust a health concern? Exposure to wood dust has been associated with health issues due to the natural chemicals in wood or substances in the wood, such as bacteria, moulds, or fungi.
I’m really unclear why is it so upsetting that consumers, many of whom, like yourself, are unaware of the dangers of sawdust, be given the simplest of disclosures? Is ignorance bliss?
Two year warranty is awesome. As long as people don’t complain when Apple’s EU prices are higher, there’s no problem.
In fact, Apple would give you a 5 year warranty if the EU were to require it. But the cost will absolutely be passed along to the buyer. The €900 iPhone 12 becomes a €1,100-1,200 iPhone 12.
Preferable? Maybe for you and others. Not to me, not by a long shot.
Just because you’re incompetent it doesn’t mean everybody is.
How "repairable" something has nothing to do with how long it will last or how well built it is. A crappy machine with lots of sockets may be easy to repair, but it also may break way more often than a system with everything in a single package like an M1.
No. It completely depends on how things are made as to whether part will "wear out". Making it easier to get to and replace a part, may make it more likely to fail than a system with very tight tolerances that cannot be opened.
However, the sealed unit might last 4 times as long, than the system that can be opened and had much looser tolerances. "Repairability" does not equal "longevity".
Well there again. It’s not the wood. It’s the resins etc. which could be labeled on those items. Not the saw. The saw I bought was for trimming in the yard and natural woods from small trees.Well, there’s no way to use a handsaw for its intended use without creating sawdust, and sawdust is carcinogenic.
Here’s some good info, just imagine all the resins, pesticides, paint, paint strippers, glues, adhesives, waterproofing compounds, lacquers, varnishes, sealants, dyes, etc. that you didn’t realize could be a danger to you, that you never even thought of.
Wood Dust - Health Effects
Why is wood dust a health concern? Exposure to wood dust has been associated with health issues due to the natural chemicals in wood or substances in the wood, such as bacteria, moulds, or fungi.www.ccohs.ca
I’m really unclear why is it so upsetting that consumers, many of whom, like yourself, are unaware of the dangers of sawdust, be given the simplest of disclosures? Is ignorance bliss?
But NO wood is NOT itself carcinogenic - at least not more so than ANYTHING else. And sawdust in itself is NOT carcinogenic. If you assume someone will cut something with carcinogenic materials in it with something at some point in its life... everything would have warnings a mile long.
No, as an informed consumer - which I am - I don’t need a government asking me the windows equivalent of “are you sure?” Every time I buy something. Especially when that thing can be used without causing cancer... Jeez.
If there's one thing we learned about corporations over the years, it's that nothing motivates them more than labeling requirements... ?
Well the performance alone would tell you there is an excuse for moving to the components soldered to the board.
In the case of my Samsung washing machine however there was no reason to seal all the components on controller board in hard silicone. Making it a $150 board replacement on a $250 machine when all it needed was a relay replaced.
As for glueing in batteries, or riveting in keyboards though .. yes I agree, there is really no excuse. Manufacturing costs would be higher though (passed onto the customer of course).
This information will not be transparent and that is the problem. It will be like iFixit's repairability score, that over all gives you very little actionable data. Which is a better product or is better for the environment? The product with the higher repairability score that never really gets software updates or the product with a low repairability with consistent updates for 4 or 5 years and enough processor headroom to last that long?
You are correct, but what we also know is there is quite a lot of gaming the system that these labeling rules cause, often with really negative consequences (as an example, lots of companies created no-fat products that were worse nutritionally than those with normal amounts of fat.
If Apple feels they need to make their products unrepairable, then don't you think in return the consumer should get a longer warranty by default? And if Apple makes their products unrepairable AND continues to bundle a chintzy warranty, then don't you think Apple's choice should be made abundantly clear to the consumer?
Grass is always grass however, it doesn't require a new type of lawnmower every couple of years to keep up.
When it comes to tech, many things ARE consumable - computers being one of them. Faster speeds are simply a requirement.
When it comes to Apple products, in a vast number of cases the products themselves outlive the usefulness of their components and many never need a repair during their useful lifespan.
That is the statutory warranty in the EU, which is indeed at least 2 years (longer even in some countries and for some products) - on paper. One has to keep i mind that the statutory warranty only protects against (possibly hidden) defects that were present when the product was purchased. Therefore all EU countries reverse the burden of proof 6 months after the purchase. If the product breaks down after that, the manufacturer can simply claim that the product was fine originally and that the customer mistreated the product. It is then up to the customer to prove them wrong, which means hiring experts, going to court, and generally turning the whole affair into a massive effort that probably exceeds the worth of the product. Thus in practice the statutory warranty is not nearly as valuable as people hope it to be, and Apple was being nice when they just replaced your screen for free.
Edited to add: This is why I am rather ambivalent about the EU statutory warranty. It can be genuinely useful in high value products, e.g. 7 months after purchase your new house collapses or the car engine breaks, though most such products will come with a warranty from the manufacturer for the first years anyway. For lower value products it just gives manufacturers an excuse to jack up prices since they "need to account for the EU warranty," when in reality they won't really have to do much fixing if they don't want to.
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I’ve never understood this logic. At least regarding upgradable stuff.
When you buy something, you are freely agreeing on a price for specs/power/os/ etc etc. People who feel entitled to change/upgrade/swap by cheaper means confound me. Yes, fixing a minor issue should be possible, but limiting designs and advancement of tech just so you can be cheap about what you buy upfront to upgrade after market is not a reasonable trade off in my opinion. Would it be nice? Sure. Is that your choice? No. Should a company be required to allow you to buy their products cheaper so you can buy another company’s internals? No. To me it doesn’t make sense.
buy what you think you need in 5 years and cough up the money. Yea, it’s expensive - but if it was too expensive, people wouldn’t buy it and Apple wouldn’t be one of the worlds’ most valuable companies.
but I’m sure I’m a minority opinion here.
You’re wrong. Wood dust itself can be carcinogenic. You should have read the article.
Specifically, nasal cancer, with Oak, beech, birch, mahogany, teak, walnut of particular concern.
The additional treatments to finished wood are a separate category of hazards that can be released in saw dust.
Whether you specifically will incur a hazard with your specific use isn’t actually relevant to whether consumers in general deserve to have the information the label provides.
All good, but isn't that the job of iFixit ? Someone is stealing their thunder.
Why must we now have a "score" of how easy or difficult at "time of purchase". That's repairability job to know that after the fact.
Although EU is doing this, keep it in the EU. Let potential buyers find out for themselves. As always has been.
(a new lawnmower is always good
)
Why must we now have a "score" of how easy or difficult at "time of purchase". That's repairability job to know that after the fact.
Although EU is doing this, keep it in the EU. Let potential buyers find out for themselves. As always has been.
(a new lawnmower is always good
)
Look, I’m sorry. We can have this discussion til the cows come home. I’m not really trying to say you’re not technically right (even though I did say that - I admit)... and it sounds like you may be right (my curiosity is peaked about the types of wood... so I may just read the article) but the idea that anyone needs to be warned about everything under the guise of consumer information is still, to me, insane. There is literally no end to what could be explained or warned about. Literally... no... end. And guess what. When people see those minor warnings about sawdust, they are almost certainly going to have less reverence for a warning that’s potentially more severe. Boy-who-cried-wolf kind of thing.
Selling a mug? Better warn folks about caffeine. Selling a sink faucet? Better warn folks you can drown. And maybe they do warn you about those things - crazy. If you think that provides more information great.
But regardless of whether mahogany does or does not potentially cause cancer, it will not effect whether or not I, or likely anyone else, would not cut that piece of wood. Because, if you’re cutting it... it needs to be cut. I mean, really.
Thanks for responding to my earlier comment with information and without personal attacks. I appreciate it.
Letting consumers repair their own devices without penalizing them for doing so should be the norm. Unfortunately, that just doesn't fit into Apple's business model.
It wouldn't be SO bad if they used screws as apposed to rivets/glue for the keyboard and battery. Surely it would be more cost effective to replace just the battery in the machine for Apple than send the entire machine away to be dismantled and pretty much entirely replaced.
Hugh Jeffreys on YouTube (link to video below) switched over the cameras on two iPhone 12 models. They both stopped working properly. He moved them back to their original housings and the phones worked flawlessly again.
It is one thing to electronically pair a fingerprint scanner or FaceID camera, but it seems that you can't even swap what are seemingly identical camera modules between phones, thus making Apples servicing the only option.
There is, but I doubt it will matter much to most consumers, who simply want the latest tech. What is the average replacement cycle of a cell phone, for example? 2 -3 years? Most of those phones are still quite serviceable; yet people ditch them for the newest shiny.
TL;DR: Good idea, let's see how well it works if it becomes law
The problem is repairbale may not translate to "easy to repair." I get where you are coming from, I replaced a broken part on my washer for about $29 and it is working fine. If the electronics board goes out, however, even though it is replaceable the cost is nearly 2/3's of a new machine. Absent schematics and a knowledge of electronic trouble shooting, board level repair is impossible even if the part is repairable. Even if it is just a $5 transistor, the cost for a tech to come, pull the board, trouble shoot and repair it is likely to approach half that of a new part and thus the economics changes to making a new one more attractive. The advantage would be in the used market, where someone could take the broken machine and repair it and sell it to another person.
I am troubleshooting a problem with an old Kenwood amp, and the instruction manual includes board level circuit diagrams and parts lists. Apple even used to include schemtaics with its computers. Unfortunately, that ship sailed long ago. There is a certain satisfaction in repairing stuff, I just rebuilt the odometer on my 635CSi and will fix a faultuy A/C blower by replacing a $5 transistor instead of a $140 board with the transitor already soldered in place. Most people are not interested in that, and if someone had to pay me to do it the cost would be close to that of a new board.
I like the idea, but wonder how effective it will be in changing buying and manufacturing habits.