FBI Calls End-to-End Encryption 'Deeply Concerning' as Privacy Groups Hail Apple's Advanced Data Protection as a Victory for Users

[Robert.Walter]

Advanced Data Protection for iCloud will be available to U.S. users by the end of the year and will start rolling out to the rest of the world in early 2023.

it's the usual Apple roll-out. US always gets everything first and the rest of the world can go to hell until they decide they deserve getting feature parity.

Privacy for all, unless you live outside of the US.

Or unless you have local laws that hinder this.

 

[zorinlynx]

I wonder if the FBI realizes there's plenty of ways for criminals to communicate that they don't have access to. Sure, they might have a bit more trouble catching some of the dumber criminals now, but those usually end up caught eventually anyway because, well, they're dumb.

 

[laptech]

OK - then lock yourself in a bunker. Off with ya now!

OK - you keep wearing your tinfoil hat. Off with ya now!

 

[klasma]

So FBI confirms that the feature works as advertised. Great!

That might be a ruse, don’t fall for it!

 

[klasma]

Roads can be surveilled and vehicles stopped and searched.

I’m hopeful the Apple Car will come with end-to-end road encryption.

 

[bobcomer]

Peoples attitudes will change when they become personally involved or affected by the use of security encryption related to criminal action. A person on holiday abroad being kidnapped for ransom, people trafficking, bomb threats/incidents and other terrorist incidents.

How would Tim Cook feel if a close relative of his was blown up in a terrorist incident and the FBI go 'sorry, we knew the bombers were communicating with others via iphones but there is nothing we could do because of Apple's security encription'.

Yes i know it's an argument that has been used time and time again but I do not think for one min that anyone supporting encryption without security authourities having some form of access would agree to such practices if they were on the resulting end of some tradgedy that could be prevented. A loved one on holiday get's kidnapped and killed because no ransom was paid or a loved one get's blown up at some event, there is no way in hell they are going to say 'oh well, such is life, the security services could not access Apple's encryption thus their death could not have been prevented'.

It will happen, no doubt about it. It's all about if one think's it is worth it or not. I don't.

 

[klasma]

I’ll admit my take on this was a bit different. I want law enforcement to be able to stop terrorist attacks. I want them to be able to prosecute criminals. If every bad person ensures their communications are all done on encrypted devices that does seem like it would make them much harder to catch.

The issue is, criminals can always add their own encryption on top of existing communication channels, and that’s what they’ll do if ”lawful access” becomes a thing. You can even make it look like normal texts and pictures, but have secret messages invisibly encrypted in them (steganography). As they say, if encryption becomes outlawed, only outlaws will use encryption. Meaning, the only result would be reduced privacy for lawful citizens.

 

[jonblatho]

I want law enforcement to be able to stop terrorist attacks.

Rest assured, they already sucked at that, at least in the U.S.

Not “terrorism” specifically, but think of how many times we’ve seen a mass shooting with obvious red flags prior to the incident — even people reporting the person to police explicitly for planning a mass shooting — and police failed to act.

 

[BGPL]

I've always wondered why people fantasize about the FBI or other law enforcement wanting their data. No one wants your data. No one cares. It's some sort of validation or disorder that says "I'm important, I'm here, and somehow I'm a part of this really big, important thing".

 

[klasma]

So icloud Backups were NOT encrypted???

In addition to what others already replied: The drawback of E2EE backups is that you have to take care yourself of storing a copy of the encryption key somewhere, to be able to restore the backup on a new device. Currently Apple keeps the key for you, and hence they have in principle access to the contents of the backup. With E2EE backups, you’re the only one holding the key, but you have to make sure that you actually do still have it in some form when you lose your current device.

 

[laptech]

View attachment 2125262

Maybe someone should make up a cartoon with a picture of a person holding an iphone with a plane being blown up in the background with the speech bubble saying 'the FBI wont catch me'. Or a cartoon of a person dragging a female girl in to a sex house with images of smiling men with the person holding an iphone and a speech bubble saying 'the FBI wont catch me'. But I seriously doubt MR admins and mod's would allow such cartoons to be shown in here. Only one message is allowed to be sent which is that to make a mockery of the FBI but people's concerns of security are not.

 

[jonblatho]

Maybe someone should make up a cartoon with a picture of a person holding an iphone with a plane being blown up in the background with the speech bubble saying 'the FBI wont catch me'. Or a cartoon of a person dragging a female girl in to a sex house with images of smiling men with the person holding an iphone and a speech bubble saying 'the FBI wont catch me'. But I seriously doubt MR admins and mod's would allow such cartoons to be shown in here. Only one message is allowed to be sent which is that to make a mockery of the FBI but people's concerns of security are not.

Thank goodness the federal government was able to thwart the Boston Marathon bombing and 9/11 as those happened before end-to-end encryption was readily accessible to the average consumer (spare iMessage in the case of the Boston bombing).

 

[mansplains]

When the alphabet agencies don't like it that's usually a good sign

 

[Skyscraperfan]

Not sure if Apple has to give up security by design for the entire world just because the FBI wants lawful access by design. If the US really wanted this, couldn't Congress pass a law that compels defendants to unlock their iCloud account and jail them until they do? Like some sort of contempt of court measure? Granted it may require a constitutional amendment, but the American people could vote for it if they really wanted to.

That would go against your right to remain silent. You can't be forced to help law enforcement to gather evidence against you.

 

[BreakingKayfabe]

Not sure if Apple has to give up security by design for the entire world just because the FBI wants lawful access by design. If the US really wanted this, couldn't Congress pass a law that compels defendants to unlock their iCloud account and jail them until they do? Like some sort of contempt of court measure? Granted it may require a constitutional amendment, but the American people could vote for it if they really wanted to.

“Oh my. I’ve forgotten my iCloud password along with my password to my device.”

 

[jjudson]

Jeez, a stellar organization like the FBI is upset?

 

[chenks]

I've always wondered why people fantasize about the FBI or other law enforcement wanting their data. No one wants your data. No one cares. It's some sort of validation or disorder that says "I'm important, I'm here, and somehow I'm a part of this really big, important thing".

there's always someone that wants your data, whether you know about it or not.
if you feel that no-one wants your data then post your usernames/passwords publicly, because if you're right no-one will bother.

 

[cocky jeremy]

If the FBI hates it, I'm a fan of it.

 

[AppliedMicro]

I've always wondered why people fantasize about the FBI or other law enforcement wanting their data. No one wants your data. No one cares. It's some sort of validation or disorder that says "I'm important, I'm here, and somehow I'm a part of this really big, important thing".

Quite the assumption, considering you don't know me and what data I am (or we are) storing.

It's not as if the US - or other countries - haven't been caught red-handed in industrial espionage before.

 

[macsimcon]

Maybe someone should make up a cartoon with a picture of a person holding an iphone with a plane being blown up in the background with the speech bubble saying 'the FBI wont catch me'. Or a cartoon of a person dragging a female girl in to a sex house with images of smiling men with the person holding an iphone and a speech bubble saying 'the FBI wont catch me'. But I seriously doubt MR admins and mod's would allow such cartoons to be shown in here. Only one message is allowed to be sent which is that to make a mockery of the FBI but people's concerns of security are not.

OK, time for some reality: the FBI sucks. Nobody should have died at Waco. The FBI helped create the plot to kill Governor Whitmer. The FBI claimed there were terrorists operating in Princeton. What about the guy they entrapped by trying to sell him a submarine? And did the FBI stop 9/11? The FBI was surveilling Martin Luther King. They murdered the leader of the Black Panthers while he was asleep in bed. The FBI couldn't solve the burglary in their own office. FBI agents took orders from an Army man who was actually on site to steal. In 2009, the FBI accidentally dialed a serial killer, tipping him off when he heard their entire conversation, which ultimately resulted in his being set free. They spent two years investigating a cult which turned out to be a gothic website.

The FBI pretended to investigate Judge Brett Kavanaugh...and then didn't. He's now a Justice on the Supreme Court.

FBI Director James Comey helped Russian asset Donald Trump get elected President when he cast doubt on Hillary Clinton just weeks before a presidential election...while not casting ANY doubt on Russian asset Donald Trump.

Then there's Whitey Bulger, an FBI informant who was simultaneously eliminating his competition right under the FBI's nose.

And let's not forget about Robert Hanssen, an FBI agent who was also a KGB spy for over 20 years.

The FBI has a history of paying informants, and then being duped by them.

I could go on, and on, and on. The FBI has been screwing up since its inception.

Tell me again how the FBI is going to stop some criminal plot if they can surveil us without our knowledge.

The FBI needs to vastly improve its competence, which will go much further in solving crimes than obsessing over encryption ever will.

 

[Shirasaki]

The seriously dangerous people and groups were already using encryption, keeping it away from average users doesn’t seem to be worth the tradeoff.

Those people just don't understand this implication. Heck, those even more determined ones build their OWN CELL TOWER. Mere encryption isn't even able to raise their eyebrow.

My safety and security is more important to me than your rights.

Then go out and ask every single American are they willing to give up their rights to ensure your own safety. I believe the answer would be shocking to you.

 

[robbietop]

You mean the same FBI that was spying on people and making up stories over at Twitter?

The same FBI breathing down my neck and denied me Clear verification and then didn't explain why despite me having one speeding ticket in 2008 and that's about it?

The same FBI that claims it can stop terrorism if we just allow them backdoor access and yet can't even stop a single mass shooting?

"You don't have anything to hide! The FBI should be trusted!"

"You're not raping children, but were mad when Apple setup CSAM. Hmmmmm, begs the question."

 

[CapitalIdea]

Maybe someone should make up a cartoon with a picture of a person holding an iphone with a plane being blown up in the background with the speech bubble saying 'the FBI wont catch me'. Or a cartoon of a person dragging a female girl in to a sex house with images of smiling men with the person holding an iphone and a speech bubble saying 'the FBI wont catch me'. But I seriously doubt MR admins and mod's would allow such cartoons to be shown in here. Only one message is allowed to be sent which is that to make a mockery of the FBI but people's concerns of security are not.

Oh no! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!11!

 

[hirshnoc]

Does anyone else find it ironic that the guy’s name is “Fox Cahn?”

 

[NT1440]

Wait, I thought only China had authoritarian governmental bodies that try to impose spying abilities on their population??

Oh wait, nothing ever changed after we handed over access to everything (secretly) after 9/11, my mistake.