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yaxomoxay

macrumors 604
Mar 3, 2010
7,412
34,214
Texas
To some extent, yes. Overall, I agree... but here is a lot more to it. People on low carb diet, for example, dramatically increase their caloric intake and still lose weight because the body's metabolic process changes from burning carbohydrates for fuel to burning ketones. Insulin production drops, glucagon levels go up and the body's concentration of fatty acids increases to essentially produce glucose from fat, including stored body fat.

On the other hand, diet low in fat and high in sugars (carbohydrates and simple sugars) causes an increase in insulin production, which in turn helps the body metabolize carbohydrates into either energy or through lipogenesis into fat. It's almost like the opposite of the ketogenic state. It's easy to see what happens when you don't expend enough energy in this scenario.

So, the relationship between energy intake and output is far more complex.

It is definitely complex, but we're the only species that utilizes reason to make their own life simpler and substantially reduce the amount of physical work required to survive. We are the only creators of technology and this has a huge impact on our biological functions, at all levels.
 

Gutwrench

Suspended
Jan 2, 2011
4,603
10,530
It is definitely complex, but we're the only species that utilizes reason to make their own life simpler and substantially reduce the amount of physical work required to survive. We are the only creators of technology and this has a huge impact on our biological functions, at all levels.

Don’t many animals use tools? Isn’t that a form of technology?
 
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yaxomoxay

macrumors 604
Mar 3, 2010
7,412
34,214
Texas
Don’t many animals use tools? Isn’t that a form of technology?

They use tools, but they don't create tools that create and move tools tools. facilitating life... that much. That is, they lack the ability to automate virtually all of the actions which is the leading cause of obesity.
 
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Conutz

macrumors 6502
Oct 24, 2014
358
250
Joburg
To some extent, yes. Overall, I agree... but here is a lot more to it. People on low carb diet, for example, dramatically increase their caloric intake and still lose weight because the body's metabolic process changes from burning carbohydrates for fuel to burning ketones. Insulin production drops, glucagon levels go up and the body's concentration of fatty acids increases to essentially produce glucose from fat, including stored body fat.

On the other hand, diet low in fat and high in sugars (carbohydrates and simple sugars) causes an increase in insulin production, which in turn helps the body metabolize carbohydrates into either energy or through lipogenesis into fat. It's almost like the opposite of the ketogenic state. It's easy to see what happens when you don't expend enough energy in this scenario.

So, the relationship between energy intake and output is far more complex.
It is complex, but we’ve made it so. Hi carb is very common today, exaggeratedly so. I saw a TV add the other day for a 3-layer stacked pizza - where could that ever, ever be justified, even as a “cheat”? But there’s a demand for it and looking around, clearly so.

In terms of the low carb, my experience is people flip-flop between the two in a desperate attempt to undo the effects of poor discipline. I have no medical training (an engineer), but I do wonder whether the typical person’s move to a low-carb diet is effectively an increase in calories. Possibly, but irrespective, I think the two diets represent extremes and aren’t good for the body in the longer term.

I do speak with some personal experience in regard to diets. Up to my early 20’s I had a diet rich in...whatever I wanted. I still remember dinners consisting of a full plate of pasta bolognese, followed by a steak and beans, completed with a sandwich. At my heaviest, I weighed around 102kg (1.82m), until one fine day I decided enough was enough. I altered my diet to the Body-for-life nutrient breakdown (45-45-10 or so) until I was down to about 84kg, after around 8 months. That was about 22 years ago and since then I’ve changed my lifestyle completely. Over time I returned to a less scientific and more “by feel” approach whereby I try and eat balanced meals and avoid things like triple-layered pizzas like the plague! I also exercise regularly, aiming to get to the gym at least 3 times in a bad week. It‘s not easy, but simple choices have a huge amount to do with it. (And becomes more important as we age, unless one really exercises hard: I have a seventy-year old friend that was a competition bodybuilder in his heyday - he trains as hard as I do (or harder!), eats a fair bit, but well and is in fantastic shape).

But overall, the above points are why I think it’s all over-complicated. Just look at the Italians - some years ago, I remember reading in Time magazine that they were the slimmest in Europe...the pasta-eaters?! That was some time ago and one can see that things are changing, particularly amongst the youth (I go quite often), as well as the popping up of fast-food outlets and pizza with fries as a topping! The point about the Italians is that it is a cultural thing to look good/look after oneself and not going overboard. There will be other factors, but in the end, it’s largely about choices.

So in my view, people must cut the cr*p: just eat less and move more. The rest is largely noise.
 

real pearl

macrumors newbie
Feb 24, 2020
1
3
Carbs are evil. That simple. Consume only in whole vegetable/fruit variety (and even then be judicious). More quality protein and fat. Yes, fat. We all went awry when carbs (especially processed) were pushed and fats were vilified.

Track your carbs. Cap at 100grams a day max. Yes, you can cheat on special occasions.

And exercise.

You'll be studdly in 6-9 months.

Carbs control blood sugar and diabetes

The right mix of carbs is the best way to control blood sugar and keep diabetes at bay. In one study at the Beltsville Human Nutrition Center at the USDA, participants who consumed a diet rich in high Resistant Starch foods were able to lower their post-meal blood sugar and insulin response by up to 38%.

Eat the carbs you want, but you need to combine them so that they don’t cause a spike in your blood sugar. Instead of eating white rice, switch to brown and combine it with beans, corn, or other high Resistant Starch foods that keep your blood sugar more balanced than low-carb diets.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,539
26,654
The Misty Mountains
It is complex, but we’ve made it so. Hi carb is very common today, exaggeratedly so. I saw a TV add the other day for a 3-layer stacked pizza - where could that ever, ever be justified, even as a “cheat”? But there’s a demand for it and looking around, clearly so.

In terms of the low carb, my experience is people flip-flop between the two in a desperate attempt to undo the effects of poor discipline. I have no medical training (an engineer), but I do wonder whether the typical person’s move to a low-carb diet is effectively an increase in calories. Possibly, but irrespective, I think the two diets represent extremes and aren’t good for the body in the longer term.

I do speak with some personal experience in regard to diets. Up to my early 20’s I had a diet rich in...whatever I wanted. I still remember dinners consisting of a full plate of pasta bolognese, followed by a steak and beans, completed with a sandwich. At my heaviest, I weighed around 102kg (1.82m), until one fine day I decided enough was enough. I altered my diet to the Body-for-life nutrient breakdown (45-45-10 or so) until I was down to about 84kg, after around 8 months. That was about 22 years ago and since then I’ve changed my lifestyle completely. Over time I returned to a less scientific and more “by feel” approach whereby I try and eat balanced meals and avoid things like triple-layered pizzas like the plague! I also exercise regularly, aiming to get to the gym at least 3 times in a bad week. It‘s not easy, but simple choices have a huge amount to do with it. (And becomes more important as we age, unless one really exercises hard: I have a seventy-year old friend that was a competition bodybuilder in his heyday - he trains as hard as I do (or harder!), eats a fair bit, but well and is in fantastic shape).

But overall, the above points are why I think it’s all over-complicated. Just look at the Italians - some years ago, I remember reading in Time magazine that they were the slimmest in Europe...the pasta-eaters?! That was some time ago and one can see that things are changing, particularly amongst the youth (I go quite often), as well as the popping up of fast-food outlets and pizza with fries as a topping! The point about the Italians is that it is a cultural thing to look good/look after oneself and not going overboard. There will be other factors, but in the end, it’s largely about choices.

So in my view, people must cut the cr*p: just eat less and move more. The rest is largely noise.
When I started paying attention to labels, I noticed at one particular pizza place at the airport that the calories in a single piece of pizza could vary from 300-1500 calories possibly more. I looked at a deluxe slice of pizza at Giovanni’s New York Pizza that had 2” thick worth of toppings and decided no thanks.
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
When I started paying attention to labels, I noticed at one particular pizza place at the airport that the calories in a single piece of pizza could vary from 300-1500 calories possibly more. I looked at a deluxe slice of pizza at Giovanni’s New York Pizza that had 2” thick worth of toppings and decided no thanks.

You can put me in the minority, but pizza is the one food item actually I don’t like/or prefer

There’s a local popular ‘pizza place’ here in my city that is frequented quite often. I tried some a while back, and I was blown away how much grease was on the cardboard under the pizza in the box. I mean, the flavor was decent and I can see what others were talking about in terms of the popularity following the quality of ingredients, etc. But I’m just one of those individuals not comfortable Eating something so unhealthy with saturated fats/oils/butters, etc. As a matter fact, I usually sometimes almost feel nauseous after eating really heavy oil/greasy food, because my body is not acclimated to eating such garbage, but for others, that’s their daily consumption diet, which is kind of telling in itself of where we are in societal ‘daily’ eating habits leading to other health issues, but I digress.

Anyways, there’s nothing wrong with eating pizza or enjoying what you like in moderation, it’s just some pizzas are just so heavily saturated with butter/oil’s, you literally probably could ring it out like a wet rag into a bucket, and _that_ is what is going into someone’s body. No thanks.

My own idea of pizza, would be making with fresh ingredients with fresh dough, but on the lighter fare of things eliminating any heavy oil/fats, and then supplementing deep green salad.
 

0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,820
Pizza and burgers are easy enough to make, but tough to make taste incredible without resorting to cheap tools like fats to amp up the texture and taste.

There's nothing worse than food elitists who say something has to be done a certain way or those annoying foodies you see on YouTube or elsewhere.

For example, when I make chili, I used freshly cooked black beans. They're small and dense, and pack a good nutritional punch. I don't use ground beef even though I can. I prefer to cube up really good marbled chuck and brown the meat on all sides then let it slow cook. It's a lot more effort, but it tastes incredible. My chicken, pork or turkey chili uses freshly grilled hot green peppers for a salsa verde like flavor on top of everything else.

I've always joked that if you make chili without beans and it's simply ground beef and overcooked veggies with spice, you've made a spicy sloppy joe. And no one likes those.
 
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D.T.

macrumors G4
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,460
Vilano Beach, FL
Pizza and burgers are easy enough to make, but tough to make taste incredible without resorting to cheap tools like fats to amp up the texture and taste.

We don't often have them, but we had burgers this weekend, they were spectacular, fresh deli buns (they're small, so these are like "sliders"), a nice 90/10 ground sirloin (grocery's organic sourced beef), good Boar's head American cheese, lots of fresh veggies - and cooked in a cast iron skillet ...


IMG_6641_1200.jpeg


Hi, BTW :D
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
My local gym is putting out advisories on Clovid-19 and closing procedures. Now I possibly have to relocate to a different gym for something that’s not even in my area, even though I fully understand the ramifications behind what this is capable of. But still, unreal the measures that are being taken in advance.


On top of that, the Arnold classic (Bodybuilding competition) in Ohio was canceled for public viewing and only open to professionals for posing. Something I wanted to attend, but reverted to an investor seminar instead.

But....

The good news is, the weather is shaping up very nicely [70°] where I can start doing more cardio outside, and to me, the best form of cardio is being outside with sights/fresh air.
 
Last edited:

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,539
26,654
The Misty Mountains
My local gym is putting out advisories on Clovid-19 and closing procedures. Now I possibly have to relocate to a different gym for something that’s not even in my area, even though I fully understand the ramifications behind what this is capable of. But still, unreal the measures that are being taken in advance.


On top of that, the Arnold classic (Bodybuilding competition) in Ohio was canceled for public viewing and only open to professionals for posing. Something I wanted to attend, but reverted to an investor seminar instead.

But....

The good news is, the weather is shaping up very nicely [70°] where I can start doing more cardio outside, and to me, the best form of cardio is being outside with sights/fresh air.
No word at the Y (Houston) about it closing, not a peep or a sign about good habits although they do have hand and spray sanitizer plus paper towel dispensers all over, which they had long before this scare. The latter for spraying equipment.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
I gave up on gyms decades ago. Too many jerks and posers to work around.

Bolded: Oh Gutty, dat be me. 😁 But hey, I pose in confines in the mirror when no one else is really looking. I mean, posing routines is a bit of the bodybuilding aura.

[Side note:

I knew what you meant by posers, I just wanted interject my own interpretation.]
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
No word at the Y (Houston) about it closing, not a peep or a sign about good habits although they do have hand and spray sanitizer plus paper towel dispensers all over, which they had long before this scare. The latter for spraying equipment.

The gym I attend is pretty clean, they do a good job of disinfecting the equipment. (While back I even asked specifically what kind of ingredients they use in these ‘cleaners’, [Yes, I’m the only member probably who asked this] and they actually provided me a ‘material data safety sheet’ {MSDS} of everything it includes. However, The worst part is the locker rooms, but I don’t shower at the gym, and nor will I ever given circumstances we all are aware of.
 
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Gutwrench

Suspended
Jan 2, 2011
4,603
10,530
Bolded: Oh Gutty, dat be me.

[Side note:I knew what you meant by posers...]

Then you understand me, no offense. It was frustrating trying to get through a routine twice a day working around posers standing around jawing about themselves, their awesome diet, philosophy and giving unsolicited advice.
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
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Then you understand me, no offense. It was frustrating trying to get through a routine twice a day working around posers standing around jawing about themselves, their awesome diet, philosophy and giving unsolicited advice.

I like to socialize in the Gym and I admire my hard work that shows over the course of time, well, because that’s kind of what a bodybuilder does in terms of posing/tweaking the areas that need improvement. But I don’t go around making it a habit to intimidate or make others feel uncomfortable. A gym is intended to be a comfortable community environment for everyone to partake in.

On the topic of advice, nothing makes me feel better when another gym member comes up to me and says ‘Hey, what you showed me a few weeks back really made a difference in terms of my work out’. That means milestones to me, because as much as I like to work to better myself, I like to educate others as well in terms of improving their lifting habits for those who actually ask. I never go out of my way to just give advice because I feel it’s ’necessary’, unless of course somebody could potentially injure themselves, then I like to educate, not Denigrate.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
@Zenithal

Any recommendations for a quality dark chocolate?[ I don’t have a membership to Costco, so we can avoid that recommendation for any sourcing there.] I have no problem spending a higher amount on a quality product, and I’ve been researching online, but want to get some feedback if you (Or other members) have any specific recommendations in terms of %/cacao.
 

0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,820
Costco doesn't carry things like that often. Seasonal, yes. Lindt and even Ghirardelli make plain bars in various grades. 90% and 100% are available. You can try grades from 60% and higher and see what you can find palatable. Highest grades of chocolate are available from a handful of companies that sell to chocolatiers. But they tap out at around 70%, and these are chocolate houses with over a hundred years of history in some cases. The bars you see above those percentages are done in-house, and it'll vary from company.

Valhrona and Callebaut for example top out at around 85% min. cocoa mass. Excellent chocolate, but not quite what you're looking for. I eat a bar of Lindt 95% over the course of a week. These go on sale often and I simply grab the entire box's contents.
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
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All local/corporate/franchise gyms are closed in my area after a committee meeting. Looks like I’m reverting to ‘old school’ with my workouts back to home. [Fortunately I have a dedicated room in my house strictly for that with bars/racks/free weights/bands]. As for cardio, I already migrated outside versus any type of elliptical/treadmill indoors. Personally, I think there’s no better form of cardio than being outside with fresh air/sunlight.
 
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yaxomoxay

macrumors 604
Mar 3, 2010
7,412
34,214
Texas
All local/corporate/franchise gyms are closed in my area after a committee meeting. Looks like I’m reverting to ‘old school’ with my workouts back to home. [Fortunately I have a dedicated room in my house strictly for that with bars/racks/free weights/bands]. As for cardio, I already migrated outside versus any type of elliptical/treadmill indoors. Personally, I think there’s no better form of cardio than being outside with fresh air/sunlight.

gyms are still open here, but I expect to seem closed soon.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
gyms are still open here, but I expect to seem closed soon.

From my understanding, it’s partly due to lack of obtaining disinfectants to properly clean. (Which, they use commercial grade ‘concentrated formulas’ to clean their equipment, so I’m not sure why they would have ‘shortages’, when that’s not even available to the public.)

But anyways, it’s a good idea to close temporarily, but you’d be surprised how many members attend the gym when they’re under the weather [Even before the outbreak], knowingly that they shouldn’t, but they do it anyways, because they want to have that mindset of ‘mind over matter’ type attitude, When it’s actually vice versa, it should be ‘matter over mind’, because you don’t want to put others in situations where it jeopardizes their health, but obviously people simply don’t care about that.

That said, I have a really unique gym set up at home in my spare bedroom I converted, I have a Custom resistance band set up at home where I can do chest flies both standing and laying on my back with higher band weights, I have a tri-curl-bar, dumbbells, pull up bar, ect. More than enough to Supplement with the gym closures. As a matter fact, before I even started bodybuilding, this is how I used to do my workouts all the time was at home, because of my work schedule.

Adapt and overcome is the future Moto moving forward.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
Zenny, I found this amongst the hoarders today.😁 It’s not exactly ‘gourmet’, but it’s pretty freakin good. I didn’t buy the pretzel variant, I opted for ‘dark chocolate macadamia’. I’m not sure if you have this out in California or not, Definitely give it a try.

[What I like to do, is I actually throw it in the freezer for about an hour, and it enhances the flavor chilled from my perspective.]

Bonus fact:

During these times of C/19, dark chocokate is a solid antioxidant.
B666CC70-2D07-4DB9-A009-11EECB9FB643.jpeg
 
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