Mojave: The last great mac OS

[nickdalzell1]

Windows yes. It's officially supported. Linux, on the other and, is not. It refuses acess to the keyboard, wifi, sound and touchpad. Touchbar is dead too. Apparently, on T2 Macs, Apple locked all the necessary drivers except the GPU to bind to the secure enclave. You can boot Linux live install, but cannot interact with it. Oh, if you like the mess, you can add a USB-C to USB-A adapter(seriously, what's the purpose of stupid type c other than it being a solution in search of a problem?), a USB hub, tons of cables, external keyboard, mouse, and get a snaked mess of a system that's partially functional, but who wants that?!

What would Windows 10 do for me? it's just replacing one flat UI for another. With Linux, I can make it skeuo and have it extend to all apps, not just the icons or desktop.

 

[Ritsuka]

I am sorry to inform you that you are wrong on everything.
The T2 MacBook Pro has got some custom hardware, and Linux just needed someone to actually write drivers for it. The SSD, the keyboard, and the trackpad works on Linux these days.

 

[Geepaw]

I am sorry to inform you that you are wrong on everything.
The T2 MacBook Pro has got some custom hardware, and Linux just needed someone to actually write drivers for it. The SSD, the keyboard, and the trackpad works on Linux these days.

Does the Touch Bar work with Linux? Otherwise, can you use function keys? Thanks.

 

[harriska2]

I love Mojave 10.14.6 but man Preview gives me absolute problems. Trying to re-organize pages in a PDF file never works for me. Buggy buggy buggy. PDF Expert? No issues whatsoever.

 

[TheRdungeon]

To Apple's credit I believe this is the first time they've actively supported 3 operating systems, with the security update we got yesterday etc. I think they're aware of how many professional users are sticking with Mojave because of the 32 bit support

 

[baas]

To Apple's credit I believe this is the first time they've actively supported 3 operating systems, with the security update we got yesterday etc. I think they're aware of how many professional users are sticking with Mojave because of the 32 bit support

They support the last three OS's for years now.

 

[Juicy Box]

To Apple's credit I believe this is the first time they've actively supported 3 operating systems,

They support the last three OS's for years now.

Yup, this has been the norm for a while now.

Considering High Sierra just stopped getting security updates less than 2 months ago, Apple had SW support for Macs for over 11 years. That is a pretty long time.

Apple officially had High Sierra support on the Late 2009 iMac and Late 2009 MacBook, both were released in Oct 2009. High Sierra kept getting security updates up until Dec 2020.

 

[saudor]

Yup, this has been the norm for a while now.

Considering High Sierra just stopped getting security updates less than 2 months ago, Apple had SW support for Macs for over 11 years. That is a pretty long time.

Apple officially had High Sierra support on the Late 2009 iMac and Late 2009 MacBook, both were released in Oct 2009. High Sierra kept getting security updates up until Dec 2020.

It looks all right on paper but windows does it way better and with very little compromise. my 2006 htpc is still fully supported by windows 10 so that's 15 years and counting. I was also able to run a 1996 app on my modern windows 10 PC too with no modification - app ran out of the box

When it comes to mobile devices, apple is great but for PCs, it's pretty bad. Apps break all the time even between consecutive versions.

 

[stevenaaus]

In my fantasy world, Apple would release a 'luddite' version of Mojave that works on the remaining intel Macs (Mac Pro, 2019 16-inch MacBook Pro, 2020 27inch iMac, etc.) so that those of us few stalwarts who don't want to be forced into the 'future' could still enjoy their hardware in the way we see fit.

It probably wouldn't be that hard actually: Just add a couple of extra drivers that deal with the new video cards and processors (drivers that are already in Catalina) and release a version of Mojave that runs on those as well.

Lord knows, if they did that, I'd be buying their stupidly expensive 2019 Mac Pro tomorrow.

Sadly, the reason they can't do this is they'd have to acknowledge the fact that Catalina and Big Suds are buggy messes. But they treat recent macOS users as mushrooms and beta testers, and the macs as mere iPhone accesories

Mojave is definitely a borderline macOS. For me that borderline goes right through the very first iteration of the 10.14.3. Up to that point Mojave was running very comfortably with only 2GB of RAM for basic tasks and had very similar OpenGL support to High Sierra. LOTM for sure.

This is the point APFS was first used iirc. APFS is a total dog on non-ssd, and still beta software besides imho.

 

[avz]

I gave Catalina a chance and it was running OK for the most part until it started acting like the HDD is dying, so I deleted APFS volumes related to Catalina and went back to the Mojave APFS volume. Just when I thought that maybe I don't need Mojave anymore...

P.S. I am using an original 8-year old 7200 rpm HDD so there is a chance that I might be wrong. I will update my post if the same problems persist on Mojave.

 

[loby]

I gave Catalina a chance and it was running OK for the most part until it started acting like the HDD is dying, so I deleted APFS volumes related to Catalina and went back to the Mojave APFS volume. Just when I thought that maybe I don't need Mojave anymore...

P.S. I am using an original 8-year old 7200 rpm HDD so there is a chance that I might be wrong. I will update my post if the same problems persist on Mojave.

It could be that Caltalina runs better on SSDs. I had issues with Catalina until the final update and it now runs good. I might actually go back to Catalina from Big Sur on my MacBook Pro 2018. Big Sur 11.2 seems to do ok, so I will give it more time to decide.

 

[avz]

It could be that Caltalina runs better on SSDs. I had issues with Catalina until the final update and it now runs good. I might actually go back to Catalina from Big Sur on my MacBook Pro 2018. Big Sur 11.2 seems to do ok, so I will give it more time to decide.

Without a doubt SSD is better, it would still be interesting to see if Mojave restores the functionality of my iMac without having to replace the original HDD.

 

[Fishrrman]

loby observed:
"It could be that Caltalina runs better on SSDs"

This has been the case since Mavericks.
Running the Mac OS on anything less than an SSD can become an exercise in frustration...

 

[loby]

loby observed:
"It could be that Caltalina runs better on SSDs"

This has been the case since Mavericks.
Running the Mac OS on anything less than an SSD can become an exercise in frustration...

Surprisingly, my fusion drive ran fast and good on my iMac late 2012 using Mojave and actually Catalina was not bad either. Yes, on an HDD only not a thought.. slow and not great, but I was amazed at the speed of the fusion drive at the time.

Just SSD is ideal, but back then SSDs were still too expensive and not worth paying premium for a 1 TB SSD. Now 8 years later, SSDs are cheaper and the macs that you can exchange the HDD still for a SSD makes for a “like new” sometimes mac. With apple adding the trimforce option, it opened up a whole new world for mac able upgrades.

 

[Nicole1980]

Just an update, despite all the rave about the M1's (and more raving to come next week) I'm still rocking Mojave on my 2019 iMacs and am happy as a clam.
In unrelated news, I met a guy at the bar last night and my clam is happy too.

 

[Argyboy]

loby observed:
"It could be that Caltalina runs better on SSDs"

This has been the case since Mavericks.
Running the Mac OS on anything less than an SSD can become an exercise in frustration...

Running any OS on a HDD in 2021 is disastrous. There's no place for mechanical hard drives these days, outside of being used as storage drives. Using them as boot drives is just awful, even 7200RPM drives.

 

[Nicole1980]

Running any OS on a HDD in 2021 is disastrous. There's no place for mechanical hard drives these days, outside of being used as storage drives. Using them as boot drives is just awful, even 7200RPM drives.

I would add fusion drives to that - since you didn’t explicitly mention them. But they suck pretty bad as well these days.

 

[jbarley]

In unrelated news, I met a guy at the bar last night and my clam is happy too.

I really love clams.

 

[Argyboy]

I would add fusion drives to that - since you didn’t explicitly mention them. But they suck pretty bad as well these days.

I've actually never owned a machine with a fusion drive! I'll avoid those then, thanks

 

[JWJones]

Late to the party here, but Mac user since 1986 (36 years) and commercial printing prepress guy for 25 years. Now a self-employed person that users Adobe CS 5 to do labels, etc. for business on a 2014 iMac with 8GB of RAM and 500 HDD, and Mojave. Because, Adobe CS 5. Also, Linux and BSD veteran since 1999. As the 2014 iMac is getting a bit long-in-the-tooth, and I absolutely WON'T rent my software, I considered moving everything to Linux, using the Adobe CS equivalents in the free software world: GIMP (for Photoshop), Inkscape (for Illustrator), and Scribus (for InDesign). My tests with Linux and these apps proved that it was entirely doable. And yet, instead of my initial plans to purchase a Thelio Mira from System76, I bought a 2019 iMac with an Intel i9 processor, 32GB of RAM, and a 1TB Fusion drive, on which I can install Mojave (it came with Catalina), and still run Adobe CS 5 (or 6). I'm thinking of partitioning the drive to be 500MB for Catalina, and 500MB for Mojave. Anybody else doing something like this?

 

[Nicole1980]

Late to the party here, but Mac user since 1986 (36 years) and commercial printing prepress guy for 25 years. Now a self-employed person that users Adobe CS 5 to do labels, etc. for business on a 2014 iMac with 8GB of RAM and 500 HDD, and Mojave. Because, Adobe CS 5. Also, Linux and BSD veteran since 1999. As the 2014 iMac is getting a bit long-in-the-tooth, and I absolutely WON'T rent my software, I considered moving everything to Linux, using the Adobe CS equivalents in the free software world: GIMP (for Photoshop), Inkscape (for Illustrator), and Scribus (for InDesign). My tests with Linux and these apps proved that it was entirely doable. And yet, instead of my initial plans to purchase a Thelio Mira from System76, I bought a 2019 iMac with an Intel i9 processor, 32GB of RAM, and a 1TB Fusion drive, on which I can install Mojave (it came with Catalina), and still run Adobe CS 5 (or 6). I'm thinking of partitioning the drive to be 500MB for Catalina, and 500MB for Mojave. Anybody else doing something like this?

The problem with partitioning your drive with different OS's is that one of those OS's will be running strickly on the spinning drive, leaving you without the small benefit of the fusion drive for that OS.

I'll sound like my own broken record, but I suggest doing what I did - which is open up the mac and replace the spinning portion of the fusion drive with a 2.5 inch SATA ssd (I always use the 4TB Samsung 870 Evo). I've done it on several iMacs and while it seems 'intimidating' at first, if you watch the iFixit or OWC walkthroughs and take it slow, you'll have a MUCH better system when you're done.

You'll need to get replacement monitor tape from iFixit and their special tape-cutting tool, but even for a first-timer it only takes about an hour at most.

 

[JWJones]

The problem with partitioning your drive with different OS's is that one of those OS's will be running strickly on the spinning drive, leaving you without the small benefit of the fusion drive for that OS.

I'll sound like my own broken record, but I suggest doing what I did - which is open up the mac and replace the spinning portion of the fusion drive with a 2.5 inch SATA ssd (I always use the 4TB Samsung 870 Evo). I've done it on several iMacs and while it seems 'intimidating' at first, if you watch the iFixit or OWC walkthroughs and take it slow, you'll have a MUCH better system when you're done.

You'll need to get replacement monitor tape from iFixit and their special tape-cutting tool, but even for a first-timer it only takes about an hour at most.

That's definitely something to consider. Part of the reason I bought the 2019 iMac was because I can expand on its current configuration, in terms of RAM, drives, etc. Not really a viable option with the 2014 iMac, at least with RAM, anyway. Unlike the "average" Mac user, I'm not intimidated about taking computers apart, adding or replacing stuff, etc. Been doing that for years, including building PCs from scratch. Thanks for the recommendation! Yeah, those iFixit and OWC videos are great, I've used them in the past. True fact: I bought the 2019 iMac from OWC; they've always done me right in the past, so buying from them was a no-brainer. And the price was right!

 

[harriska2]

Running any OS on a HDD in 2021 is disastrous. There's no place for mechanical hard drives these days, outside of being used as storage drives. Using them as boot drives is just awful, even 7200RPM drives.

My brother told me that in 2010. I finally took his advice in 2013. As cheap as I am, even I figured that out. We have resurrected really old and slow macs with SSD drives.

 

[nickdalzell1]

"running any OS on a HDD in 2021 is disasterous"

Tell that to my still-working eMachines PC from 2008 or my Toshiba from 2012 that runs Linux just fine on a spinner disk. I'd go as far as using a classic MFM drive (mainly for document storage, savegames, etc) just to have that classic 'sound of work being done' back. I miss when PCs had actual sounds. They're too silent these days, and without disk access lights, it's oftentimes hard to tell if it's actually doing something or frozen.

I'd also love to see the LED CPU speed displays come back, too. Whenever someone restores a classic 80s PC/XT or something in that era, and puts in some stupid MFM-to-SSD converter to use a flash drive on one, it's just insulting. Without the sound that goes with that PC, it's hardly a history lesson from the era. It's like restoring a classic car and making it have stuff that didn't exist when the car was made. When I go to a classic car show, I want to see cars from the '50s as they were in the showroom floor, as they were made. Same for classic PCs. Taking the classic out and all you got is a case or shell that looks old but has new stuff inside.

 

[InuNacho]

"running any OS on a HDD in 2021 is disasterous"

Tell that to my still-working eMachines PC from 2008 or my Toshiba from 2012 that runs Linux just fine on a spinner disk. I'd go as far as using a classic MFM drive (mainly for document storage, savegames, etc) just to have that classic 'sound of work being done' back. I miss when PCs had actual sounds. They're too silent these days, and without disk access lights, it's oftentimes hard to tell if it's actually doing something or frozen.

I'd also love to see the LED CPU speed displays come back, too. Whenever someone restores a classic 80s PC/XT or something in that era, and puts in some stupid MFM-to-SSD converter to use a flash drive on one, it's just insulting. Without the sound that goes with that PC, it's hardly a history lesson from the era. It's like restoring a classic car and making it have stuff that didn't exist when the car was made. When I go to a classic car show, I want to see cars from the '50s as they were in the showroom floor, as they were made. Same for classic PCs. Taking the classic out and all you got is a case or shell that looks old but has new stuff inside.

I don't know. I love my Quicksilver G4 and I'd love to put an SSD in it so that when I go to use it one day I actually can instead of relying on a 20+ year old piece of spinning metal to work.