Yes touchbar works in Linux on T2 Macs. Apple did not block anything. People needed to write drivers for it thats all.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Mojave: The last great mac OS
- Thread starter Nicole1980
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Linux refused to work properly on my T2 Touchbar Mac. It booted fine, but I had no keyboard, no mouse/trackpad, no wifi, no sound, and low-res video from what little I could see. It only ran fine on a VM. IIRC the touchbar was entirely blank as well. That was with the latest Ubuntu release booting from USB, after doing all the recovery stuff to allow it to even boot.
Hey gang, does anyone run into this Finder bug in Mojave? Let me describe it.
List view 2 windows.
Window 1 has a list of folders, 1 set of folders is arrow pointing down to see the nested folder
Window 2 is a list view of files.
Drag files from Window 2, while holding option (to copy), to Window 1 to drop onto 1 of the nested folders.
The problem sometimes is that nested folder does not hightlight and if is doesn't and you drop the files it copies the files into the above folder/directory instead of the folder you intended.
Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Overall there seems to be a folder or file selection bug in Mojave. I've seen this behaviour in other areas, like if a nested folder is hightlighted (list view arrow down so you can see the nest) and you choose duplicate you get error sound, but if you control click, menu, and choose duplicate it works.
List view 2 windows.
Window 1 has a list of folders, 1 set of folders is arrow pointing down to see the nested folder
Window 2 is a list view of files.
Drag files from Window 2, while holding option (to copy), to Window 1 to drop onto 1 of the nested folders.
The problem sometimes is that nested folder does not hightlight and if is doesn't and you drop the files it copies the files into the above folder/directory instead of the folder you intended.
Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Overall there seems to be a folder or file selection bug in Mojave. I've seen this behaviour in other areas, like if a nested folder is hightlighted (list view arrow down so you can see the nest) and you choose duplicate you get error sound, but if you control click, menu, and choose duplicate it works.
I have 2 MacBook Pro Retina Mid-2012 models, one will be running Mojave until the day it dies, I absolutely love some of the 32bit Apps and Plugins which I'm left with no updates for. I run Catalina on my other one now, And my experience has been pretty amazing.
I think my Mojave Install MUST BE worn out, or having some sort of difficulty. It works fine when its not under load but as soon as load occurs everything grinds to a halt. Its been Upgraded since Mountain Lion 10.8 and I believe there are many "Ghosts in the Closet" that is my OS. The reason I mention this though:
After running Catalina on the same hardware, after fresh installing, everything is snappier and when the processor is loaded the thermals are better, and there is less kernel_task throttling performance. Applications such as Discord, Safari, Logic, Final Cut etc work much smoother for me on this old hardware in Catalina than they were prior. The machine feels like a whole new machine on Catalina, But still not enough to get me to trash my old Install of Mojave.
I really wish Apple would extend the lifetime support of their last masterpiece 32/64bit OS Mojave, For professional users and developers and any one else who uses it. I'm sure it will work for many years coming for critical/old software, Bonus to anyone out there who is new to Apple.
With the current low price of Intel MacBooks, I expect there to be many new users to Mac OSX in general in the coming months and years. The resale value, is not worth reselling the hardware in my opinion, these intel Macs will last along time yet. Even with Catalina.
On a side note: Metal API 3D GPU Workloads seem to be improved using Catalina, as my frame rate at 1880P resolution in latest Metal API exceeds that of which I was getting in Mojave, so if you do anything that uses the GPU you might have better results with Catalina over Past releases!
I love Catalina, I feel like it should have had 32-bit support but they streamlined things for future compatibility between 10.15 and Big Sur and newer releases. But I love Mojave even more. Somethings should be left alone and maintained for 10-25 years, OSX Mojave, if I were in charge, would be supported for a quarter century.
I think my Mojave Install MUST BE worn out, or having some sort of difficulty. It works fine when its not under load but as soon as load occurs everything grinds to a halt. Its been Upgraded since Mountain Lion 10.8 and I believe there are many "Ghosts in the Closet" that is my OS. The reason I mention this though:
After running Catalina on the same hardware, after fresh installing, everything is snappier and when the processor is loaded the thermals are better, and there is less kernel_task throttling performance. Applications such as Discord, Safari, Logic, Final Cut etc work much smoother for me on this old hardware in Catalina than they were prior. The machine feels like a whole new machine on Catalina, But still not enough to get me to trash my old Install of Mojave.
I really wish Apple would extend the lifetime support of their last masterpiece 32/64bit OS Mojave, For professional users and developers and any one else who uses it. I'm sure it will work for many years coming for critical/old software, Bonus to anyone out there who is new to Apple.
With the current low price of Intel MacBooks, I expect there to be many new users to Mac OSX in general in the coming months and years. The resale value, is not worth reselling the hardware in my opinion, these intel Macs will last along time yet. Even with Catalina.
On a side note: Metal API 3D GPU Workloads seem to be improved using Catalina, as my frame rate at 1880P resolution in latest Metal API exceeds that of which I was getting in Mojave, so if you do anything that uses the GPU you might have better results with Catalina over Past releases!
I love Catalina, I feel like it should have had 32-bit support but they streamlined things for future compatibility between 10.15 and Big Sur and newer releases. But I love Mojave even more. Somethings should be left alone and maintained for 10-25 years, OSX Mojave, if I were in charge, would be supported for a quarter century.
One option, if you do plan on sticking with Mojave, is to do a fresh install ... then install only the legacy plugins/software that you need. It may not fix whatever issue you're having, but I have a feeling the only reason Catalina is snappier is that it's a fresh install and some old piece of wonky software is to blame for most of the issues that seem to be related to Mojave.
Apple probably updated Metal and how it's used across the OS in UI elements in Catalina, rather then what was done in Mojave, which probably why Catalina appears snappier.
Use whatever version of the OS works for you, you don't have to be a part of Apple's progression to sell you more crap. I use Mojave daily, it's a great workhorse and all my software works without issues and will continue to do so for some time yet.
Yep,
I am very happy with Mojave and Catalina, being the end of the 10.x Branch, they have a couple decades or many years of solid development and support behind them, Including many things carried forward from older versions.
I am very much of the opinion that there should be a company out there that makes 25 year supported Operating Systems besides unix/IBM & old telnet applications and such.
Because having everyone use the same tools really helps allow for lesser skilled or smaller coding teams to make and produce quality software that lasts many decades. And beyond that, Just having the familiarity of the same thing and its stability for so long, helps to foster in better code and software. And no that has nothing to do with 32-Bit or not, It is what it is. Having a base OS that could be updated for 20 Years or so, would solve alot of world problems, Because updates nowadays are becoming less and less feature-filled, and more regressive and transformative in their approach.
Look back to the Windows XP days of VST Instruments and Audio software plugins that are now impossible to run unless you have a legacy machine capable of running the Native OS. I don't think you can really virtualize the ASIO bus for these things, so Virtualization is out. Some of those softwares were amazing, such as EZDrummer or Superior Drummer from Toontrack, Waves plugins, and other Professional VST Plugins and sound Libraries, none of them work nowadays.
Having everyone on the Same OS for a long period of time would enhance and lead to a better world, better computing, better software and long term support across the board.
It might even result in the manifestation of General artificial intelligence.
But besides all that, I will try a fresh copy of Mojave someday, But reinstalling all the stuff I've loaded over the years is a task that is not easily taken, I really have things setup "The way I want it", in terms of User Profile and System Apps. That being said, I am leaning towards Catalina in terms of where to put the efforts, Because it supports Logic 10.6.x whereas Mojave does not. I feel like 10.7 Logic while awesome under newer OS Builds, is not as stable as the 10.6.x branch of Logic.
If anyone out there should make a company and invest in it, base their OS on something like what Google is doing, they could call it a neat name like "Century Systems", and make a killing on knowledge transfer, and best practices in long-term software development and business security IT system implementation. At least, specifically for companies (Small to Medium) that maintain their own IT Internally, rather than relying on Clouds, per-say.
I am very happy with Mojave and Catalina, being the end of the 10.x Branch, they have a couple decades or many years of solid development and support behind them, Including many things carried forward from older versions.
I am very much of the opinion that there should be a company out there that makes 25 year supported Operating Systems besides unix/IBM & old telnet applications and such.
Because having everyone use the same tools really helps allow for lesser skilled or smaller coding teams to make and produce quality software that lasts many decades. And beyond that, Just having the familiarity of the same thing and its stability for so long, helps to foster in better code and software. And no that has nothing to do with 32-Bit or not, It is what it is. Having a base OS that could be updated for 20 Years or so, would solve alot of world problems, Because updates nowadays are becoming less and less feature-filled, and more regressive and transformative in their approach.
Look back to the Windows XP days of VST Instruments and Audio software plugins that are now impossible to run unless you have a legacy machine capable of running the Native OS. I don't think you can really virtualize the ASIO bus for these things, so Virtualization is out. Some of those softwares were amazing, such as EZDrummer or Superior Drummer from Toontrack, Waves plugins, and other Professional VST Plugins and sound Libraries, none of them work nowadays.
Having everyone on the Same OS for a long period of time would enhance and lead to a better world, better computing, better software and long term support across the board.
It might even result in the manifestation of General artificial intelligence.
But besides all that, I will try a fresh copy of Mojave someday, But reinstalling all the stuff I've loaded over the years is a task that is not easily taken, I really have things setup "The way I want it", in terms of User Profile and System Apps. That being said, I am leaning towards Catalina in terms of where to put the efforts, Because it supports Logic 10.6.x whereas Mojave does not. I feel like 10.7 Logic while awesome under newer OS Builds, is not as stable as the 10.6.x branch of Logic.
If anyone out there should make a company and invest in it, base their OS on something like what Google is doing, they could call it a neat name like "Century Systems", and make a killing on knowledge transfer, and best practices in long-term software development and business security IT system implementation. At least, specifically for companies (Small to Medium) that maintain their own IT Internally, rather than relying on Clouds, per-say.
Last edited:
I hear ya. For me, knowing that I wanted a good performing Mojave machine for the indefinite future, I bought a second 2019 iMac with 8 cores and the Vega48 graphics. So I basically have a spare 'Mojave machine' standing by, and they're both powerful enough (I added a 4tb sata SSD to both and 64gb ram to both) that 'lagginess' should never be an issue.
That gives me the luxary of not needing to try to sniff out old software (software that might be cause 'lagginess' on an older machine) because the hardware is powerful enough that there isn't any, and probably won't be any - ever.
As it stands, I go back and forth between my M1pro Macbook Pro and the 2019 iMac and don't feel the iMac is a step down at all.
Last edited:
All I can say to @Cide is that Mojave is probably not the core cause of the lagginess vs Catalina. With any computing device, there are so many variables that what works fine for a million people might be laggy for 3 people.
Also, if Mojave itself was indeed at the root of 'laggiiness' compared to Catalina, there would have already been plenty of stories and comments here and elsewhere about that. Cide is one of a scant few people who I've heard say that - and there's always a few people who say that when doing ANY upgrade, so you just have to write that off as the statistical likelyhood any kind of change to a system as complicated as Macs will cause inexplicable changes in a small fraction of them.
So while I'm sure Cide is right that Catalina works better on his set-up, I'm also equally sure that it has nothing to do with any inadequacy of Mojave vs. Catalina.
Last edited:
I agree with you @Nicole1980 I am just saying that I've done almost everything possible to restore the performance of Mojave to what I am getting from a fresh Catalina install, and I am unable to do so without Fresh installing Mojave. Which I cannot, due to the level of software customization and installs that I have, which are probably the root cause of the performance issues I am experiencing.
I am well aware of the variety of things that could go wrong with a OS and a Computer in General as I've been doing IT Management and Support for many years, and although at a glance my post would seem ignorant or, folley, It is not.
I have been unable to resolve the reason why my Kernel_Task on Mojave throttles so heavily,
and Why my fans are 4000RPM when the system is running web browser (Chrome) and Mail ONLY.
I made a long post about it on Stack-Exchange but I've gotten nowhere, If you'd like to check my EtreReport I can post one but honestly,
I am happy with the fact that a fresh install of Catalina is resolving all of the Application and Performance Lag/High RPM Fans that I am experiencing in Mojave with my nearly 10-year old MacBook Pro Retina Mid-2012. And I will continue to run Mojave (Even though it doesn't run well under load) on my Second MacBook Pro (same unit.)
Your post, However was appreciated and I like that you reached out to me here. Thank you.
I have spent far too much time trying to resolve my Mojave issues without reinstalling fresh, So I am at loss.
This is what my Istat CPU utilization looks like rite now, using the above Mail/Crome tasks, and the fans are currently above 4200 RPM (In Mojave only) - I do not have a Catalina License of IStat Menus so I can't post the comparison for you, But i'll tell you that there is no fan noise at all doing the same, or more tasks. (And Multitasking doesn't cause lag to Browsers, as another example, on the machine which is running better w. Catalina.)
It is just weird, and as an IT guy, It sucks that I have so far been unable to fix it besides fresh installing, which I consider to be a last-resort fix.
Best regards,
Cide.
Last edited:
Yep. You got some voodoo in there. And I know it's frustrating. Unfortunately the only way to sniff out a problem like that is by process of elimination (or addition - in this case). Start with a fresh install, then one by one add all the old software on there and keep testing it and when you finally get to an install that lags down the whole system - you've found your culprit.
Given that you're not able/willing to do that, you definitely seem like you're at at dead end.
Given that I'm not able/willing to do what exactly? I have already noted here, a fresh install of Catalina, at least, solves the problem for me of high RPM Fans at idle, and the insane processor kernel_tasking that occurs.
Noted: Rite after coming out of a long sleep period, My CPU stuck-ON-High Fans are resolved for a short time. Then it begins to heat up.... It's just so intermittent. I wish there was a way to repair it without fresh installing, is all I was saying
For a technician of my ability, It should be resolvable through deep OS diagnosis and troubleshooting one by one, as you suggested.This is right after waking up from a nap. Everything is as it should be.... for a bit at least.
Thank you @Nicole1980 for trying to help me, Regardless. I appreciate your time.
What i was saying is that that the only way to sniff out the issue is by process of addition (not elimination). In other words - do a fresh install of Mojave and methodically add the software that you have on there and test after each install to see if that is the source of the lag.Given that I'm not able/willing to do what exactly? I have already noted here, a fresh install of Catalina, at least, solves the problem for me of high RPM Fans at idle, and the insane processor kernel_tasking that occurs.
Noted: Rite after coming out of a long sleep period, My CPU stuck-ON-High Fans are resolved for a short time. Then it begins to heat up.... It's just so intermittent. I wish there was a way to repair it without fresh installing, is all I was saying
View attachment 2031098
This is right after waking up from a nap. Everything is as it should be.... for a bit at least.
Thank you @Nicole1980 for trying to help me, Regardless. I appreciate your time.
THAT process is what you said you were unwilling/unable to do.
Outside of that, you probably will never know.
> Rite after coming out of a long sleep period, My CPU stuck-ON-High Fans are resolved for a short time. Then it begins to heat up.... It's just so intermittent.
Hmmm - that's a tough one. I've never seen fans spin up like that really.
But why is your load fairly high (1.6 - EDIT - hmmm, maybe not high i guess), considering the sys report says 85% idle. I'm not familiar with mac kernel/stats, but possible things are - excessive I/O , network or cpu usage being hidden from sys stats, possibly maliciously.
Things i'd check. Do a PR and SMC reset... amazing what that can fix. Check your fans aren't dusted up.
Do a more intensive system process check with commandline 'ps -A'.
Check your system logs/messages for "I/O" and "error" and see what turns up. Stone dead kill Chrome and check.
Check your startup programs.
Logic Board temp sensors are fragile things, and maybe something is playing up thats not getting reported. If you can't resolve it, i'd just install a fan speed utility, and throttle them back and see how the sys temps respond. Good luck. Mojave is defintely the last decent Mac OS imho.
Hmmm - that's a tough one. I've never seen fans spin up like that really.
But why is your load fairly high (1.6 - EDIT - hmmm, maybe not high i guess), considering the sys report says 85% idle. I'm not familiar with mac kernel/stats, but possible things are - excessive I/O , network or cpu usage being hidden from sys stats, possibly maliciously.
Things i'd check. Do a PR and SMC reset... amazing what that can fix. Check your fans aren't dusted up.
Do a more intensive system process check with commandline 'ps -A'.
Check your system logs/messages for "I/O" and "error" and see what turns up. Stone dead kill Chrome and check.
Check your startup programs.
Logic Board temp sensors are fragile things, and maybe something is playing up thats not getting reported. If you can't resolve it, i'd just install a fan speed utility, and throttle them back and see how the sys temps respond. Good luck. Mojave is defintely the last decent Mac OS imho.
Last edited:
I would argue that Mavericks was the last decent Mac OS. I never really liked the flatness of all the later versions, including Mojave. So far all Mojave has that's different (to me) over Monterey is the Dashboard still being there. I never liked that Mojave had no 'auto' dark mode, only manual, and the only one boring dynamic wallpaper with no way to add more.
I have finally moved off of Mojave to Monterey 12.5. 12.5 is stable enough for me and I find that the operating system runs faster than Mojave and there's a feature that I really wanted on it. So I do not have any remaining systems running Mojave. I'd say that it has been stable for a long time and I never was interested in Catalina. Big Sur was kind of stable enough after 8 months and I guess that's where we are with Monterey now.
I know that many bugs remain in Monterey because I saw a bunch of new threads describing bugs with it. But those bugs don't affect me in my testing.
I know that many bugs remain in Monterey because I saw a bunch of new threads describing bugs with it. But those bugs don't affect me in my testing.
The only bugs I've experienced with Monterey is Safari refusing to load certain sites; many claim it's an 'unsupported browser' (is Safari the new IE?) and YouTube skeleton loading. These issues crop up a lot at work with an employee's Mac. It won't load even Yahoo! Mail (yea, they still use that) half the time. Web devs must be developing entirely for Chrome since Chrome works fine yet Safari and Firefox break a ton.
Other than that it works quite well. Catalina tended to run the fans at max doing anything like watching video or playing music (and especially just looking around the Mac App Store!). It also had bugs going from light to dark mode or vice versa, tending to get 'stuck' a lot.
I still miss Mountain Lion and Mavericks. Thankfully my Vista box has a decent enough UI.
Other than that it works quite well. Catalina tended to run the fans at max doing anything like watching video or playing music (and especially just looking around the Mac App Store!). It also had bugs going from light to dark mode or vice versa, tending to get 'stuck' a lot.
I still miss Mountain Lion and Mavericks. Thankfully my Vista box has a decent enough UI.
The bugs that I had with Monterey were memory leaks which were notorious at launch and got better with each maintenance release.
The other main problem I had is that I couldn't connect to some network domains. This was a really weird problem in that I could connect to some websites but not to others. Same with network resources. The only way to resolve the problem was to reboot the system. I had this on my 2021 MacBook Pro, and 2015 MacBook Pro. In early 2022, I started seeing it on my M1 Mac mini, and my 2014 iMac 27, both running Big Sur. My conclusion is that the bug was backported from Monterey to Big Sur. I solved the problem on my M1 Mac mini by reverting to an older maintenance release of Big Sur.
There is a thread on the Monterey forum on this but I suspect that very few people saw this problem. I normally leave my systems up for weeks to months. My M1 mini was seeing this once a day at its worst.
Both of these issues are fixed in 12.5 as far as I'm concerned which is why I've upgraded my systems to Monterey.
So now they're dumbing down the Network preferences in OS Ventura.
These are the kind of things I thought they would do when I started this thread a couple years ago. What makes Mac OS great vs iOS is the deep configurability of almost everything. Leaving it up to the USER, not Apple, to set things as he or she pleases.
Honestly it's taking a little longer than I thought, but the day when MacOS is only designed for idiotis is coming ...
These are the kind of things I thought they would do when I started this thread a couple years ago. What makes Mac OS great vs iOS is the deep configurability of almost everything. Leaving it up to the USER, not Apple, to set things as he or she pleases.
Honestly it's taking a little longer than I thought, but the day when MacOS is only designed for idiotis is coming ...
I'm sure there will be a way of access the more complete settings. I can't see them cutting that off it's too important. But hey I know what you mean.
I feel if you absolutely need to upgrade to higher OS then do so...but for me I rather have dependability and I kinda like not having Apple interested in this OS so they can't screw it up later.
I've become too tired to care. I just want to be assured when I tap or click that icon for Music, Safari/Samsung Internet/Chrome, whatever that it works and doesn't interrupt me with 'you must update to keep using this' or break because the apps' cloud is no longer there.
I hardly use apps anymore, relying mostly on the browser and built-in music player. On my phone I just use Music and SMS. At least those I can be sure won't break in a few years or force unneeded updates down my throat. I just want things to keep working the way I'm used to.
I'm just plain sick of having to re-learn and readjust to every change an 'update' brings.
I hardly use apps anymore, relying mostly on the browser and built-in music player. On my phone I just use Music and SMS. At least those I can be sure won't break in a few years or force unneeded updates down my throat. I just want things to keep working the way I'm used to.
I'm just plain sick of having to re-learn and readjust to every change an 'update' brings.
Hello Fellow Mojavians!
My Macbook Pro 2012 is running catalina, which is nice but not as fun as Mojave!
so
to do this,
I will reinstall Mojave, but with CS4
if I fresh install Elcapitan, install CS4 DVD,
is there a way i can upgrade to Mojave without losing the El Cap programs?
i will try this anyway, i was running Monterey on that macbook last week,
so im not concerned about losing data.
Thanks in advance!
My Macbook Pro 2012 is running catalina, which is nice but not as fun as Mojave!
so
to do this,
I will reinstall Mojave, but with CS4
if I fresh install Elcapitan, install CS4 DVD,
is there a way i can upgrade to Mojave without losing the El Cap programs?
i will try this anyway, i was running Monterey on that macbook last week,
so im not concerned about losing data.
Thanks in advance!
Still have 5 macs running Mojave! (mac mini 2018, iMac 2019 6 core, iMac 2019 8-core, Macbook pro 2015, and macbook pro 2012).
The one Mac I have not running Mojave is my 2021 14" macbook pro - running Monterey. I think this will be the norm: I'll always have one more recent mac running the latest (or close to it) OS and then the stable of Macs on my beloved Mojaave
The one Mac I have not running Mojave is my 2021 14" macbook pro - running Monterey. I think this will be the norm: I'll always have one more recent mac running the latest (or close to it) OS and then the stable of Macs on my beloved Mojaave