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The first post of this thread is a WikiPost and can be edited by anyone with the appropiate permissions. Your edits will be public.

Riwam

macrumors 65816
Jan 7, 2014
1,095
244
Basel, Switzerland
Sadly, it's not troll bait. It's the truth. And I really like OS X...a lot and I've always hated Microsoft, but the sad fact is that Apple doesn't give a crap about the Mac compared to cell phones and the Mac Pro is a small part of the Mac line. They used to treat it as a halo product along with their professional software that gave them bragging rights and people would go "ooh and ah" about movies and music being made on Macs and want one, even if they couldn't afford a rig that was powerful enough to do those things easily. But now the iPhone is the "halo" product and the Mac Pro is an after-thought. Final Cut Pro is a shadow of its former self (most places have abandoned Macs for film work as a result), Aperture has been totally abandoned, Xserve is DEAD and while Logic Pro is Apple's one shining star left, I gather El Capitan abandoned updating the Firewire Core Audio drivers so many older interfaces may simply stop working at some point (a lot of things did, especially in the 10.11.0 release). I've seen more complaints about OS X updates breaking things on the "flagship" Mac Pro than any other model Mac in the past few years. Apple does not properly test those machines because they're a tiny tiny portion of the machines out there.
******************
I agree with some of your views but not with all of them.

First of all I do not remember any occasion in which Apple blamed a certain problem their products suffered to a lack of means to keep enough developers to solve it.
They do not pretend to be a "poor thing" in a sadly difficult situation while other large companies in different branches often do.

Second, I am sure that they could have made the MacPro end 2013 in for instance China or Taiwan saving substancial money to manufacture it.
The fact that it was built in the USA, which is nowadays a seldom policy not only in the computer branch, proves to me that saving money at every price and not caring about professional products is not their overall policy.

However I certainly agree that precisely because they nowadays make their money on non-computer devices, they should make greater efforts on all other less profitable products just to prove self respect. o_O
Ed
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
******************
I agree with some of your views but not with all of them.

First of all I do not remember any occasion in which Apple blamed a certain problem their products suffered to a lack of means to keep enough developers to solve it.

Why would Apple blame anyone? Apple doesn't even admit there's a damn problem for god's sake! That's the whole point! They IGNORE products for years on end (how long was it before a proper update of the Mac Pro on the previous generation at a time and then we get this new design that ignored all the professional needs of everyone except film makers (most of the professionals abandoned Apple already so it was a moot point), put a pointless custom connector so no user could change out the video card for something USEFUL to someone OTHER than film makers (what audio person needs TWO professional class video cards for Pete's sake???) and forced all PCI upgrade to be external (messy and costly) for NO OTHER REASON than to "look cool". WTF!?!?

Actually, that case could be a huge HIT if they made a consumer version with regular i7s and a proper desktop NVidia card in it (better yet TWO with SLI support) and sold it as a gamer's wet dream. You'd probably get Windows users to buy it then just for Windows gaming if it sold for around $2k (despite the fact you could build a Windows machine for $1200 with similar specs).

No, Apple won't even offer a half-decent GPU in the Mac Mini anymore (last update killed the discrete GPU and quad-i7 options for no reason except to push higher profit models even though iMacs aren't the same product and the Mac Pro has no consumer graphics cards as I've mentioned. Apple has a huge hole in their lineup (I'd say two given the old Mac Pro was FAR more useful and easier to lug around) and three if you count XServe (WTF CAN'T Apple compete on the Server level? They chose NOT to). Those are all growth areas they could take advantage of and increase stock value and diversity, but they'd rather pout and say those aren't areas they're "interested" in because Steve Jobs didn't like gaming (and apparently Tim Cook doesn't either) and networking is BORING or something. Ridiculous. The only reason this doesn't bit them in the arse is that they make all their money from phones. With a 20% or less market share. What happens if that hits 10% or less like the Mac did in the 1990s? There the software started to dry up and that just made the situation worse.

People thought the iPad was the second coming, but its market is already drying up. They are almost completely dependent on their iPhone to make money at this point (iPods are dead; Macs are miniscule for profit by comparison, etc.) Now they're thinking of making a CAR? How long will that last? It doesn't sell like hotcakes the first year and suddenly it's gone? Yeah, kind of like the Apple Watch will be within 5 years because it's a stupid pointless device.

They do not pretend to be a "poor thing" in a sadly difficult situation while other large companies in different branches often do.

No, they just delay things (like Leopard when the iPhone first came out) and drop support for older products WAY TOO EARLY in many cases. The don't offer an excuse. They just do it. I'm saying it would be pocket change (in their terms) for them to do it RIGHT by the consumer. They choose not to. And I thought Microsoft was greedy over the years.... :eek:

Second, I am sure that they could have made the MacPro end 2013 in for instance China or Taiwan saving substancial money to manufacture it.

They already said they could NOT. Apple gave their reasons for bringing back assembly to the USA and it had everything to do with shipping costs and higher wages in China making it uncompetitive (they're not the only company starting to notice that with largely automated manufactured products). It's simply cheaper to assemble them here and only bring the needed parts in. The reason iPhones are still made over there is the extreme level of fine work hand driven assembly required to put them together. That requires a lot of people doing it by hand and that costs BIG MONEY to do over here. In China, it's a fraction of the rate over here and the final products are much smaller and weigh less than something like a Mac Pro or Macbook Pro (the latter are also assembled over here now from what I've read).

Believe me, Apple didn't do this out of the goodness of their hearts. They are 100% about PROFIT.

The fact that it was built in the USA, which is nowadays a seldom policy not only in the computer branch, proves to me that saving money at every price and not caring about professional products is not their overall policy.

I'm sure it appears that way to you based on past history with manufacturing "everything" in China, but that's not what the news reports said when it happened. It costs a lot to move products all the way from China to the U.S. If China's wages go from 10 cents and hour to 30 cents and hour, that's a big hit on profits (3x the labor costs) given the high shipping.

However I certainly agree that precisely because they nowadays make their money on non-computer devices, they should make greater efforts on all other less profitable products just to prove self respect. o_O
Ed

There's a better reason to do it and that's to guard against a product failure. Microsoft has had a few over the past decade (e.g. Windows Vista and Windows 8 and Windows ME before that) and they could suffer through the failures precisely due to their massive market shares and near monopoly status. It might have hurt their profits a bit, but they were never in any danger of going out of business like Apple as in the late 1990s.
 
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CoastalOR

macrumors 68040
Jan 19, 2015
3,022
1,147
Oregon, USA
This topic has become a total waste to view with all of the off topic comments. I would personally like to see updated information about OS X El Capitan: Working & Not Working Apps when I click on this thread. Can we please get back on topic and take the disagreements to a new/different thread? :mad:
 

Riwam

macrumors 65816
Jan 7, 2014
1,095
244
Basel, Switzerland
This topic has become a total waste to view with all of the off topic comments. I would personally like to see updated information about OS X El Capitan: Working & Not Working Apps when I click on this thread. Can we please get back on topic and take the disagreements to a new/different thread? :mad:
****
I apologize for having answered to MagnusVonMagnum and contributed without noticing it to deviate from the topic and purpose of this thread.
It just seemed to me an unfair critics of Apple's policy towards pro products and pro users and I had the bad idea to answer.

By the way, as you will no doubt agree, to attack Apple on the ground that what they do is for "profit" and not "out of the goodness of their heart" has no sense at all.:eek:
This is always the case with any commercial enterprise, wether gigantic like Apple or a tiny one-man-business,... but that is again not the topic of this thread.

Your suggestion to bring discussions about how good or how bad Apple might be, particularly regarding pro users, to a new thread, has however AWAIK very little sense.:(
Most people have already, as you can see, their own well established point of view on that matter.
Such a thread would be entirely useless for anybody in this forum.

Again I apologize for my fault.
Emotive reactions regarding justice or unjustice coming from other users never conduct to anything useful, but we are just humans and humans make mistakes... :oops:
Ed
 

Floris

macrumors 68020
Sep 7, 2007
2,381
1,473
Netherlands
No idea how the wiki stuff works, sorry ..
But I have helped quite a few MacBookPro machines with Pulse Secure (latest update) which is a VPN that lots of Universities use, and they have 'staying logged in' problems. They keep losing wifi and the connection, etc.
 

m4v3r1ck

macrumors 68030
Nov 2, 2011
2,575
512
The Netherlands
This topic has become a total waste to view with all of the off topic comments. I would personally like to see updated information about OS X El Capitan: Working & Not Working Apps when I click on this thread. Can we please get back on topic and take the disagreements to a new/different thread? :mad:


I agree, many wiki's are - for MANY users - like this thread, a very important source of information on which they make decisions. I for instant am following it very closely. There are still too many apps NOT working, so I've delayed my upgrade to OS X 10.11!

Thanks to all who participated in the way it should be; provide vital information about the behaviour of owned apps used in a new release of OS X, specially for the less techie members here on MacRumors, like myself! ;-)

Keep up the good work guys, thanks!

Cheers
 
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talmy

macrumors 601
Oct 26, 2009
4,726
332
Oregon
This topic has become a total waste to view with all of the off topic comments. I would personally like to see updated information about OS X El Capitan: Working & Not Working Apps when I click on this thread. Can we please get back on topic and take the disagreements to a new/different thread? :mad:

If updated the way it was intended, there should have been only one post in this thread, the first post which anyone can edit. Indeed over 1300 posts has made this thread useless, but some people do update the first post, so just read that and move on.

There should be new threads, though. This one was for the first beta originally. Most non-working apps back then work now.
 

CameoSue

macrumors newbie
Nov 15, 2015
2
0
Nope, not after "upgrading" to el Capitan. Can connect MJ+ via wall outlet and have dial tone and service, but lose Internet on computer. Am wondering if an Internet cable splitter would work . . . Any thoughts / suggestions welcomed.
 

sunsetblow

macrumors regular
Jul 6, 2013
171
25
I'm on 10.11.2 Beta (15C40a) and Preview constantly crashes when opening PDFs. Ugh. Anyone else experiencing this?
 

chrisnelsonx

macrumors newbie
Nov 17, 2015
1
0
I noticed OneDrive for Business is in the "Working" section. It is a known issue in Microsoft Support, Multiple Mac and Microsoft Forums, and personally that this does not work on El Capitan. I am on the waiting list to receive an alert of the newest update. Does anyone know of a workaround which is why it's on the "Working" list?
 

sunsetblow

macrumors regular
Jul 6, 2013
171
25
not happening here... all pdfs? or just one? have you rebooted? (sorry, obvious questions...)

Yes, no, yes. It may have to do with the fact that I'm highlighting stuff and saving it constantly but definitely not regular app behavior I'm assuming...

Just updated to 10.11.2 Beta (15C47a) and Preview seems to be back to normal. Will update if it still occurs. Thanks!
 
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mohamedwanas

macrumors newbie
Nov 27, 2015
4
1
OS X El Capitan Beta: Working & Not Working Apps

You can edit this post rather than adding to the thread.

Working

1Password (has minor display glitches but functions fine)

4D
Ableton Live 9
Adium
AVID Mbox2 mini
Acrobat Pro X
Adobe Creative Cloud CC 2015 (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Audition, etc.) (not Media Encoder)
Adobe Photoshop CS6 and up (Adobe Bridge V5.0.2 (CS6) will no longer recognize my Camera, a Canon 7D. I can download my pics with Apple Photos, and Bridge still works in Yosemite 10.10.5)
AdwareMedic
Affinity Photo
Airmail 2
Air video HD
Alfred 2
Amphetamine
Anki
Any.do
Aperture 3.6
AppCleaner
AppZapper
Asset Catalog Creator
Atom
Audio Hijack 3.1.1
Audio Hijack Pro
AudioSwitcher
Autodesk Maya 2016
Avira
Battle.Net Launcher
Bartender 1.2.41 (no longer able to control system menubar items due to Rootless)
BetterSnap Tool
BetterTouchTool
Billings
Bias Peak Pro 7
Bitdefender Virus Scanner
Blackmagic DaVinci Resolve Studio 12
BOINC Manager
Bookends
Boom 2 (but option in app to launch at startup doesn't work; workaround of turning that off and adding app to user's login items seems to work)
Boxer
Brainwave Studio
BreakTime (required permission repair)
Caffeine
Calibre
Calcbot
Carbon Copy Cloner
CCleaner (v1.10.335)
CDock (PB5, possibly earlier as well)
Cinema 4D R16
Circus Ponies Notebook
Cisco Anyconnect VPN
ClamXav 2.7.5
CleanApp
Cleanmymac 3 MacPaws beta works fine
Clear
Coconut Battery
Coda
Colloquy
Compressor 4.2
Cookie 4.4
CrashPlan 4.3.0 (as of PB3)
CrossOver 14.1.6
CuteClips
Cyberduck
DaisyDisk
DataVault PW Manager
Day One
cDock
Default Folder
Degrees
Deliveries
DeSmuMe
DevonThink Office PRO
Diablo III
Digital Performer 9
Disk Sensei
Displapertqure
Divvy
DNScrypyt - OsXClient
Doomseeker
DOSBox
Dreamweaver CS5.5
Dreamweaver CC2014
Dropbox
DVDpedia
EazyDraw 7 (using beta on developer's site)
Echofon
Eclipse (4.5 Mars)
Electrum
EiskaltDC++ (current)
Emcee
Evernot
Eve: Online
EyeTV (performance issues when switching a channel)
Fantastical 2
Fidelia 1.5
FileMaker Pro Advanced 14.0.1
FilesPro
FileVault
Filezilla
Final Draft
Finale 2012 (after java update)
f.lux
FolxGo
Gamepedia
Geektool
Geek bench 3
gfxCardStatus, v2.3
Google Chrome
Google Chrome Canary
Google Drive
Google Earth Pro
Google Music Manager
Google Photos Desktop Uploader
Grand Theft Auto San Andreas
Handbrake
Hangouts
Helix
Helix RADE
Helix Server
Helix Client
Hex Fiend
HipChat
Hype 3 Pro
iFlicks 2
iPhoto
iSentry
iShowU Pro (requires resetting settings)
iStat Menu 5.11 (unable to be placed between system menubar extras)
iStat Nano/Pro (Dashboard)
iTerm
iTerm2 (frequent crashes)
iVolume
iWork '09 (Pages, Numbers, Keynote) - problems with the new pencil color picker (in 10.11.1)
iZotope RX 3 & 4
Kega Fusion
Keka
Keynote (current version)
Kindle
Kodi 14.2
Last.fm
LastPass
LibreOffice since public beta 6 (before PB6 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92898)
Lightroom 5
Lightroom CC
LittleSnitch latest nightly build works fine
Logic Pro 9.1.8
Logic Pro X
Logitech Control Center (Devices won't pair) - Works for me, when mouse reconfigured!
LogMeIn-Rescue
Logos 6 (6.5 Beta 3 works)
MacJournal
MacScan
Mactracker
Mailbox Beta
MakeMKV
MalwareBytes
Matlab R2013a - works after installing prompted java
Matlab R2015
Merlin
Mbox2 mini
Microsoft Lync 14.0.11
Microsoft Office Suite (Vers 15.x) (Latest Update (09/09/15) to V14.5.5 - http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/confirmation.aspx?id=48941)
Microsoft Office for Mac 2016 (Save crash fixed in PB 6)
Microsoft OneDrive for Business
Microsoft Remote Desktop
Microsoft Word 2011
MixedInKey
Mozilla Firefox
Mozilla Thunderbird
Mountain
Movist (Exiting full screen playback by clicking is buggy)
MplayerX
Mumble 1.2.10
MySQLWorkbench 6.2
nook for Mac
Notability
Numbers (current version)
OmniFocus
OmniGraffle
OmniOutliner
Onyx
OpenEmu
OS X Fuse 2.8.0
ownCloud client 1.8.2
<oXygen/> XML Editor (after Java install)
Pages (current version)
Paintbrush
Papers 3.2.10
Parallels Desktop (10.2.1) (Also version 9)
Path Finder (works, but some funkiness with the UI)
PDF Pen Pro
PhotoScan Pro (Agisoft, version 1.0.3)
Photoshop CS5.1 (after java update)
Pixelmator ( after AppCleaner and reinstall from the app store )
PlatinumNotes (current)
Plex Home Theater
Plex Media Server
PluralEyes 3.5
Propellerheads Reason 7, 8
pwSafe
Quicken 2007
Quicken 2015
QuickTime 7.x
R 3.1.2
R Studio
Radarscope
RapidWeaver
Razer Synapse
RDM
RealVNC Viewer
Reeder
Retrospect Client 12.0.2 (menu bar status doesn't work, but pref pane and backups do)
Rhinoceros (working again since Public Beta 2 / Developer Beta 4)
RingCentral for Mac
Roccat Browser
Safari Prairiefire
ScreenFlow
Scrivener (working fine for most people but some experience a start-up crash).
Seil
SelfControl
Silo
Sketch
Skim (since beta 3)
Slack
SlingPlayer Plug-in
SMC Fan Control
SmoothMouse
Sophos Anti-Virus for Macintosh 9.2.4
Spark
Spotify
Starcraft 2
Stata 13
Steam
Stellarium
Subler
Sublime Text 3
SuperDuper Beta2 works
Team Viewer
Team Fortress 2
TechTool Pro 8 - Version 8.0.3 released and working with 11.0 and 11.10.1.
Telegram
Text Wrangler
TextMate
Textual 5 (MAS version)
TG Pro
TheBrain (8)
Todoist
Total Manager 3.7.0
TorBrowser
Traktor 2.9.0
Transmission
Transmit
TrueCrypt
TRIM Enabler
Tunnelblick
Tweetbot 2
Tweetdeck
Twitter
uBar
ubersicht
UltraFractal 5
Ulysses
UnRarX
UP2
uTorrent 1.8.6
VirtualBox
Virtual DJ Pro Full
VLC
VMware Fusion 6
Vuze
Wacom Bamboo tablet driver (requires complete uninstall followed by install of latest drivers)
WavePad
WeatherDock
WiFiSpoof 2.2.3
Wine
WiTopia
Word 2008
World Clock
WowMatrix
Wunderlist
VMWare Horizon Client 3.4.1 (released 2nd July to support El Capitan)
XBOX 360 Controller for Windows
Xcode 6.3.2
Xee
XLD
XQuartz (requires rootless be turned off to install)
YNAB 4
Zandronum

Not Working

Anything that requires Java 6 (Requires update—download at https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1572?locale=en_US)
BetterZip
Box Sync
Brother Printer - Control Center,,cannot connect to scanner (v 2.14.0 works conditionally)
Calories 3
Capture One Pro 8 (Tethering with Nikon cameras. Works when camera is connected via a powered USB hub and Apple's Photos app is set not to automatically open when that camera is plugged in.)
Casper (Jamf Software)
CleanmyMac 3
Clear Day (weather app)
Cocktail by Maintain
Cookie (beta available)
DockMod
Downcast
Egnyte Desktop Sync
Finale 2014
Flashlight (also broken in Yosemite 10.10.4)
Fluid & Fluid-bassed apps
Garmin Basecamp
gdisk 1.0.0 (Installation successful after disabling rootless and rebooting)
GraphPad Prism 6.0g (6.0h will fix issues)
HandsOff 3.5
iConBox 2.6.0
Imprint V1.4.2
jBidWatcher (requires Java 6)
KPN Backup Online V13.6.1.14292 (from IASO) - can't install due to SIP.
LaCie Raid Manager
LunchBar 6 (Works except for Calendar and Reminders)
League of Legends (LoLPatcherUx remains unresponsive when launched)
Letter Opener Pro (Version 8.0 Beta 1 works - Download Letter Opener Pro for OS X Mail )
LiteIcon 3.5.6
Little Snitch 3.5.3 (Nightly Build 3.6 - 4348 released for 10.11)
Logitech Control Center (Devices won't pair) - Works for me, when mouse reconfigured!
Logitech Harmony Remote Software (requires Java SE 6)
LogMeIn
LogMeIn Client
Lync 2011 (logs in then crashes)
Mail Act-On (Compatible beta out: http://support.indev.ca/discussions/plugin-versions-for-apple-seeds)
MenuBarRearranger2
MenuMeters 1.8.1 (MenuMeters 1.9 for El Capitan is out: http://member.ipmu.jp/yuji.tachikawa/MenuMetersElCapitan/ )
Metro
Microsoft Remote Desktop (works for some)
Microsoft Outlook Preview 2016 (very buggy with exchange account)
Motion 5.0.2 (5.1.2 or later is working)
Movie Magic Budgeting (requires Java 6, which can not be installed on 10.11)
Native Instruments Komplete (Audio Units fail validation / crash - seems to be affecting Logic only)
NovaBench (totally white windows, needs to be force quit)
NTFS-3G
NZBDrop 3.01
OS X Fuse 2.7.5 (OS X Fuse 2.8.0 Beta released for 10.11)
Paragon NTFS 12 (60 day trial of v14 preview is available on their website. Will be free upgrade from v12)
Parallels Bootcamp partition (Other VM's work fine)
Prospects (MotiMotion LLC.) Version 1.2.8 (App freezes on opening but will eventually open after several attempts.
Quicken (crashes on launch unless I start a new database from scratch)
RadioSHARK (app works but gets no sound from device). Workaround: Use Audio Hijack 3.1.1 to round sound from RadioSHARK input to Line Out
Roon (was working in DP1 and DP2, broken in DP3)
Safari Stand
Screen Recycler
Skype (logging in with Microsoft account does not work; see this and that)
SmartScore X2 Pro current version
Sibelius 7.5
Snag-It (All-In-One Capture does not work...Window and Full Screen work.)
Snood Solitaire graphics are broken.
SpamSieve (needs update to work with newest Mail)
Starry Night Pro Plus 7.1.2
StarStaX (crashes immediately on open)
SuperDuper! (see http://www.shirt-pocket.com/blog/index.php/shadedgrey/comments/uncovering_our_rootlessness/ for details and beta)
Synology Cloud Station (does not detect changes, needs stop/restart to make it work)
TechTool Pro 7
Topaz Adjust 5
Topaz Clean 3
Topaz DeNoise 5.10
Topaz InFocus 1.10
TotalFinder
TotalSpaces2 ( Works after rootless turning off)
Township (Game)
Taxer NTFS (Installed after disabling rootless via Terminal and rebooting)
Twitteriffic 4.5.1
Winclone
XtraFinder
Yosemite CacheCleaner


I'm concerned about:

Acrobat Pro (X works fine for me)
Backup Buddy
Drive Genius 3
DiskWarrior 4.4
Drobo Dashboard <-- according to this thread, it looks good except for iSCSI:
http://www.drobospace.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=144837
And Drobo says on their support page that it works with "our current product line": https://myproducts.drobo.com/support
Stata 13

If anyone has these and are using El Capitan Beta could you please post if they are working OK? Thanks


Adobe photoshop cc 2015 is not working on El Capitan 10.11 ( and 10.11.1 ) : after installing and try to launch the app quits every time !!
Can any one help !
Thanks
 
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navaira

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,914
5,138
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Adobe photoshop cc 2015 is not working on El Capitan 10.11 ( and 10.11.1 ) : after installing and try to launch the app quits every time !!
Can any one help !
Thanks
As useless as this feedback is, works here (on iMac mid-2011 and Macbook Air early 2015). No crashes at all. Did you remove all remaining bits of previous versions?
 

davekro

macrumors regular
Mar 31, 2011
171
53
No. Calif.
MS Office 2008 is not listed in working -or- not working. Argh It's hard to believe in 54 pages no one has reported on this version of MS Office. (I only searched pages 1 and 54 for Office 2008).

I have a new to me Mac Mini that I wanted to upgrade from 10.9.5 to 10.10.5. I learned I am SOL since I have never 'purchased/downloaded' 10.10 so am forced to go to El Capitan.
 

roverma

macrumors member
Mar 29, 2012
72
2
The Netherlands
Adobe Premiere Pro 9.1 (latest version) not working anymore.
Error message: could not find any capable video play modules,update your video display drivers.
Problem seems related to GPUsniffer
 
Last edited:

sneakerme

macrumors newbie
Dec 2, 2015
1
0
Broomfield Colorado
Adobe Premiere Pro 9.1 (latest version) not working anymore.
Error message: could not find any capable video play modules,update your video display drivers.
Problem seems related to GPUsniffer
My apps won,t update in El Capitan , tried restoring the system , still can,t update, using the app store ? help
 

ariddel

macrumors newbie
Dec 17, 2015
1
0
Toledo, OH
I just recently installed el Capitan (version 10.11.2) and am discovering interface bugs with Adobe InDesign. When I go to select text in InDesign, the text "disappears." Actually it just becomes invisible but if I click on the box and try again, sometimes it works ok. But that issue DEFINITELY was NOT there before EC. Just wanted the community to know and hope the Apple el Capitan folks will fix that.
 
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