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Macative

Suspended
Mar 7, 2022
834
1,319
Another post covered that while there are some well traveled Americans, it's still overall bad. I hear stories how people work in food prep or kitchens and are only allowed to take unpaid leave if they're vomiting. If they're sneezing, coughing, or hacking out a lung, they'd get fired if they try to take off (all while cooking/heating your food).

I've heard stories from old timers how one person is listening in surprise how his coworkers are bragging about how much PTO they have NOT used... "I have 120 hours of vacation time". "I have 160 hours of PTO!". "Well, I haven't taken a vacation since the Clinton administration". And the 3 just high five each other. We're weird like that :\
Believe it or not (your choice) there is a flip side to this where lenient policies for sick leave and PTO are abused like you wouldn't believe, leaving the company itself in serious jeopardy with staffing problems because the employees take advantage of it. Happens more often than you probably care to acknowledge, and it is a real problem. I know everyone wants to make everything about the big bad scary "employer" who has the nerve to expect people to show up for work, but it is not that simple. At all.
 

bgalakazam

macrumors regular
Jul 21, 2014
164
237
Germany
If conditions are so bad, why don’t they just leave? Nobody forced them to work at Apple. While we are at it, I personally DESERVE a 50% raise and 2 more weeks or vacation.
 

maxoakland

macrumors 6502a
Oct 6, 2021
745
1,069
Believe it or not (your choice) there is a flip side to this where lenient policies for sick leave and PTO are abused like you wouldn't believe, leaving the company itself in serious jeopardy with staffing problems because the employees take advantage of it. Happens more often than you probably care to acknowledge, and it is a real problem. I know everyone wants to make everything about the big bad scary "employer" who has the nerve to expect people to show up for work, but it is not that simple. At all.

If that’s true why does every other country except the USA have these laws? They’re doing great and companies in them are doing great

Truth is, that’s just fear mongering and it doesn’t make sense when you look at reality.

If conditions are so bad, why don’t they just leave? Nobody forced them to work at Apple. While we are at it, I personally DESERVE a 50% raise and 2 more weeks or vacation.

Why are you so emotional about this?
 

Macative

Suspended
Mar 7, 2022
834
1,319
If that’s true why does every other country except the USA have these laws? They’re doing great and companies in them are doing great

Truth is, that’s just fear mongering and it doesn’t make sense when you look at reality.
There is no "if". It's literally what happens. Do you really not know that people take advantage of absolutely everything they can, everywhere they can? And I have no idea what "laws" you're referring to, that's completely out of context here. What you're responding to is in response to typical tripe of U.S. businesses working people to do death and having outrageous expectations like showing up for work when you are supposed to.
 

kingtj1971

macrumors 6502a
Feb 11, 2021
500
582
Alton, IL
Historically, Biden was a big union supporter and counted on that demographic for his votes. Clearly, that hasn't changed. Ignoring all of that political posturing though? I.T. jobs typically aren't a good fit for unionization. Almost every time I hear about how unfair the working conditions are in the industry, I also hear how people are able to leverage the job to get better pay and benefits at the next one when they put it on a resume.

In fact, most I.T. software developers or systems admin types don't stay at the same company more than a few years. It's almost considered a negative to stay for 6+ years at one place, because people start questioning if your skills became stagnant.

Apple Store work may be more of a hybrid computer support / retail job. But it's still a similar situation, since all the stores are just arms of Apple; the I.T. company running them as outlets for what it makes to sell. If you work Apple retail for a few years and decide it's too stressful or you're underpaid for your experience or ?? Just by putting "Apple" on that resume, you're in a good position to try to move up to something else.

IMO, that's the right way to advance, vs demanding a union (who skims off the top of what you earn with its dues) force the employer to keep giving you a little bit more every so often.
 
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ackmondual

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2014
2,435
1,147
U.S.A., Earth
Believe it or not (your choice) there is a flip side to this where lenient policies for sick leave and PTO are abused like you wouldn't believe, leaving the company itself in serious jeopardy with staffing problems because the employees take advantage of it. Happens more often than you probably care to acknowledge, and it is a real problem. I know everyone wants to make everything about the big bad scary "employer" who has the nerve to expect people to show up for work, but it is not that simple. At all.
Oh, I don't doubt that there are people who take advantage of this. However, I wouldn't want to get food poisoning because of such policies. Would you want to get food poisoning? Likewise, you seem to be making it about how "employers can do no wrong".

As for people not showing up on time, or at all, some employers have been misguided into thinking that some greasy high school teen being paid minimum wage makes for a reliable employee. Or how a college student would choose to skip work to study for finals instead of working at some dead end job. Employers need to learn how to get enough redundancy into their essential services to run a business.
 

brofkand

macrumors 65816
Jun 11, 2006
1,348
3,448
This will be interesting... let me prepare the kettle, oil, butter and popcorn.

On a personal note, somehow I feel those employees made a mistake.

It is quite telling how once the stench of unionization got stronger Dierde suddenly emailed all store employees with pay raises though.

I think they don't need a Union, but they chose a Union - so more power to them. I just don't like being forced one way or the other. If people want Union representation, they should be free to choose it. But nobody should be forced to accept Union representation for any reason.
 

brofkand

macrumors 65816
Jun 11, 2006
1,348
3,448
Not against unions, though I do think in many cases they are no longer necessary or needed with current labour laws. I wonder how long it will be before Apple prices increase to go along with the wage increases and other benefits the unions will start fighting for.

Apple has been increasing prices for the entirety of the Tim Cook era without needing Unions as an excuse.
 

AF_APPLETALK

macrumors 6502a
Nov 12, 2020
606
848
Guess apple should have sent the biden campaign more than the $14,291 they did. Remember apple, 10% for the big guy.
 

gene731

macrumors 6502
Oct 28, 2015
407
423
More money for workers and less money for trillion-dollar companies is always a good thing.
Unions are nothing but democratic fund raisers pure and simple. The best thing to happen to unions is the Janus decision from SCOTUS. As soon as I was able too I got out of the stupid ATU union I was forced to join as a condition of employment. Hopefully some Apple employees do the same thing as well. Unions are a dinosaur of the past once
a good thing then it turned into nothing more than a financing arm for the DNC.
 

gene731

macrumors 6502
Oct 28, 2015
407
423
He's getting to it... He's scheduled to go to kowtow to the Saudis this week. The same ones he called murderers last year.
Lol on the getting to it. We had one of the best economies for the roughly past for years, and yes I’m a Trump voter aand yes do I think he got way to power hungry? Absolutely. What has Xiden offered? Sky high gas prices rampant inflation a supply
chain that is constantly out of needed products. It is as if we are living in a world country which with the flooding of illegals who seem to think we are to take care of their @$$ while American citizens are starving and going without basic necessities.
I wish Biden would worry less about political grabs of attention and worry about inflation and price of goods.
 

NPC Compliant

Suspended
Feb 6, 2019
178
547
Australia
If you have somebody with a battery run pacemaker in your family, you should tell him/her to immediately take it out, because it was invented in Sweden. But yeah Sweden don’t invent such much garbage like other countries, mainly things that matters.

Btw. Trash all your clothes and accessories that has Zippers, it was also invented in Sweden.

Best not to spout BS on the internet that’s easily refuted

Pacemaker

Zipper
 

Homy

macrumors 68020
Jan 14, 2006
2,132
1,990
Sweden
LMAO. What kind of business is going to give you 5 weeks off from work, regardless of how long you've been working? That's wildly impractical.
On the contrary it's been working very well since 1978 when the law was passed by the Swedish government and NOT by the unions. Every business, private or public, has to give the employees 25 days paid vacation. You can also save 5 of those 25 days for up to 5 years and take a longer vacation later.

Actually Sweden is not the best. In Malta you get 27 days, in Great Britain 28 and in Luxembourg 32 days. In Kuwait you get 35 days. The last time we had only 2 weeks paid vacation like many in the US was in 1938. You should watch this video from Michael Moore's "Where to invade next" when he was in Italy and asked about their vacation rules.

Then on the other side of the scale we have Japan with also only 10 days vacation and its karoshi culture where workers literally work themselves to death or commit suicide.
 
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sudo-sandwich

Suspended
Aug 5, 2021
671
558
Wel, that was before oil and natural gas spiked rather significantly dur to a certain invasion, do keep up plz, the "who us bad" label does not currently apply ti anyon with oil to sell ( aspart from Russians), rhe tube will probably change rather swiftly once Ukraine is sirterpd and related embargoes from both sides are lifted
"The commitments from the Saudis don't relate to anything having to do with energy." "And it has to do with national security for them, for Israelis." - Joe Biden, 6/12/2022.
I actually believe that.
 

sudo-sandwich

Suspended
Aug 5, 2021
671
558
Fun fact: those kiosks don’t usually result in lower staffing levels, they just free up staff to do other things than taking all initial orders, which allows places to expand their menus or increase throughout, or cleanliness, or… etc while keeping the same staffing level
So, lower staffing level per orders filled per day.
 

sudo-sandwich

Suspended
Aug 5, 2021
671
558
Lol on the getting to it. We had one of the best economies for the roughly past for years, and yes I’m a Trump voter aand yes do I think he got way to power hungry? Absolutely. What has Xiden offered? Sky high gas prices rampant inflation a supply
chain that is constantly out of needed products. It is as if we are living in a world country which with the flooding of illegals who seem to think we are to take care of their @$$ while American citizens are starving and going without basic necessities.
If you look at what Trump and Biden actually did, both supported inflationary policies. They seem to agree on the Fed.
Both authorized a ton of stimulus. What did Biden do in particular, other than happening to take office when everything started hitting the fan?
 

sudo-sandwich

Suspended
Aug 5, 2021
671
558
Tesla, who make cars that lose navigation control and drive into buildings? Tesla, who make cars that frequently go on fire?
GM had to recall nearly all their electric vehicles ever sold because of batteries catching on fire. In the quarter when Biden made that speech, GM had sold nearly 0 EVs. My boss had one and said GM slowly BS'd him until they finally took it back.

There are tons of people driving Teslas without issues for each individual guy who makes the news with his car blowing up, and they're selling the most EVs in the US by far. And they were first to make EVs viable. It's obvious which one earns the title.
 
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urnotl33t

macrumors 6502a
Jan 26, 2017
515
648
Cary, NC, USA
Why did you have to pay $4,700 when you got a child?
Anesthesiologist is a large part of that, if it was a C-section birth. Docs, hospital stay (if surgery), and of course all the Jell-O. Not so cheap.

Condoms are cheaper than daycare. Just sayin'.

Edit: and yes, I have a kid myself, and I'm glad to have her. She's amazing! Such a joy.
 

urnotl33t

macrumors 6502a
Jan 26, 2017
515
648
Cary, NC, USA
No actually I agree that it is about achieving a balance, and history HAS shown abuses can be remedied by union representation. Good, healthy companies do not actively work against their employees' interests. I am not suggesting that there is not abuse, especially in industries where there are few (if any) alternatives for workers with a specific skillset. There I can see good arguments for union representation.

You state that shift patterns are lousy for Apple retail employees. I can empathize with that as my wife works in a system where her shifts are all over the place. As with everything in life there are tradeoffs. Is working for Apple, the salary, benefits, etc worth is to deal with the shift issue? My wife has decided that yes, the tradeoff is currently worth it, but she is always on the lookout for something better. So to me, the natural consequence is high turnover. Turnover (employee satisfaction) is the a cost/benefit calculation for Apple. Are these retail employees shackled to Apple?
Right. I can see good uses for some "better bargaining" in some form for areas with low opportunities. Apple Retail? Don't like it? Walk across the concourse into the pottery barn and apply for their open position for the stock department. You'll be hired in an hour.
 
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urnotl33t

macrumors 6502a
Jan 26, 2017
515
648
Cary, NC, USA
When people have money, they tend to support the system that got them there. When people don't, they tend to rail against the system that they think is in their way.

I've mostly sided with business, as it is businesses that are created by hardworking and self-sacrificing people that provide jobs and income for many other not-so-hardworking people. But over time as I've come to see companies like Apple absorb so much of the wealth that exists in the world and give so little back to their employees and customers, I'm doubting a lot more than I used to. There is enough wealth being held onto and kept out of the economy to boost everyone's standard of living significantly, and that bothers me a bit.
Yep, and that part does suck. It's hard. However, there IS an answer, but it requires....some work, which a increasing few seem to want to do.

Become a shareholder. Buy the company stock and submit your votes at the shareholder meetings. File a motion at the shareholder meeting. Own part of the company. If they're holding that wealth, and Apple is, they'll return that to their shareholders first, before paying wages. Wages spur inflation. Dividends spur further investment and build ... wealth.

More work can be done, too. Buy the company's bonds. Become a bond holder and you are among the first in line to get repaid if the company dies. Creditors and bond holders get priority #1. Shareholders almost last. Employees last. Some Apple bonds don't pay a great coupon rate. Some do. But you do get your money back, and that's always good.

Yep this requires some work, and too many people are being scared out of equity and debt markets (or cheated out of them). Sadly, it's very much a "good ol' boys" club (so disgusting), but it's where the real money goes.

"How do I do it?", one may ask. Gah, please don't use robinhood. Your local bank people can help you get started. Start there. Or use that Internet thing that's all the rage these days...
 

sudo-sandwich

Suspended
Aug 5, 2021
671
558
"How do I do it?", one may ask. Gah, please don't use robinhood. Your local bank people can help you get started. Start there. Or use that Internet thing that's all the rage these days...
Chase does it, albeit only for long stock purchases, not shorts or options. The first X (some number I've never hit) trades are free. Robin Hood is a total scam, tells market-makers over at Citadel what everyone's aggregated trades are before they go through.
 
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