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oreganoinferno

macrumors regular
Dec 4, 2016
106
678
Totally agree to design pinnacle theory! I love this phone and its form factor. Recently I discovered Filmic Pro for myself to film 4K and 1080p in 24fps, which is so much faster & convenient that I dropped filming 4K with my $1400 mirrorless camera entirely. Wish I already had that phone when we went to New Zealand back in late 2016... Surely I'd like to upgrade to the cameras offered in the iPhone 13, but for any other use case I have there's zero reason for me to upgrade.
With iOS 16 coming later this year, I still hope they give us another year or two of security updates, as they did with iOS 12.
Beyond, I hope they keep the 13 mini in production for a couple of years (like the iPhone 11) so there would be a somewhat reasonable upgrade option.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors Pentium
Mar 19, 2008
15,004
32,176
Surely I'd like to upgrade to the cameras offered in the iPhone 13, but for any other use case I have there's zero reason for me to upgrade.
With iOS 16 coming later this year, I still hope they give us another year or two of security updates, as they did with iOS 12.

Same - my main worry becomes App support.

I've heard many devs mention how "thrilled" they'll be when 4" screen sizes aren't something they have to worry about anymore.

Translation -- the countdown will begin for apps to start being "borked" on 4" screens...and in the modern era, at some point things stop working right if you aren't on the latest major iOS version.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
5,601
5,953
Same - my main worry becomes App support.

I've heard many devs mention how "thrilled" they'll be when 4" screen sizes aren't something they have to worry about anymore.

Translation -- the countdown will begin for apps to start being "borked" on 4" screens...and in the modern era, at some point things stop working right if you aren't on the latest major iOS version.
They must be praying the iPod touch gets discontinued haha
 
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mectojic

macrumors 65816
Dec 27, 2020
1,232
2,376
Sydney, Australia
Couldn’t agree more. Typing this on my 1st Gen SE now. After the battery on my first one became too unusable, I picked up a second one with better battery health.

I’ve said it before, this form factor is perfect for me. Light, small, and out of my way when I don’t need it. And if Apple can’t bring back a phone this small, including the ultra-useful headphone jack, I have to abandon Apple for something else.
 

Xand&Roby

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2020
533
486
It’s a little late, you know?

I owned 7 SE 2016 from day one, April 5, 2016.

It wasn't a cheap phone, it was a 6s in the body of a 5s, but people didn't understand it, most of them didn't understand someone who paid the same price for an older phone, so they began to believe it was a cheap phone, not the last ergonomic iPhone ever made.

SE 16 in my experience has two main bugs: the first six (with two warranty screen replacements), until the last one was changed to warranty on April 5, 2018, it had the defective Home button, it became shaky and noisy after 3 weeks, even if not used.

The upper rear glass, on every SE 16 I owned, was flush with the body but in a few weeks of use, especially with high CPU temperatures (games and GPS localisation), the angle of the upper glass (sometimes both) rose.

What I can understand about these two bugs is that the Indian factories that assembled SE 16 were not skilful enough and Apple's quality control on this product was incredibly poor; the project was wrong, A9 was too much for the 5s body, but it allowed years of use despite the ever-increasing iOS bug.

5/5s were pretty good if you didn't update them (I have a 5s with iOS 8 and it's even more useable than iOS 15 on SE 16, faster and less heavy for the battery, which is 9 years against 18 months of that of the SE 16 but lasts 10 times longer); 4S was the best iPhone ever made for older generations (indestructible like a Nokia 3310, with a stainless steel body, better designed than the 5 and all subsequent iPhones with its system of coupling the front and rear panels to the centre body).

I own a 13 mini 512gb to replace the SE 16 for 2 weeks, just because I don't want a huge phone (14 and above) and the battery consumption of SE 16 is pathetic from iOS 13.

It's a little harder to handle with one hand (hands as small as mine), but it's pretty good.

It has only one small problem: it gets hot as the SE 16 in charging and games/locations/music and video synchronisation.
6 years to produce it, at the double price.

Apple got worse day after day, I already knew it but I could deeply understand how much it got worse only by seeing first-hand the poor quality of the projects that deliberates and sells.
 
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Xand&Roby

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2020
533
486
They must be praying the iPod touch gets discontinued haha
iPod touch is the best iPhone EVER.

Every time I go to an Apple Store I need to spend hours on this product, even though I used an SE 16 until two weeks ago: I would have liked an SE 16 in the body of the last iPod Touch, it is the best "iPhone" of the 4/4S/5c/5s / SE family ever realised. I don't know what to make of an iPod, but this can't detach me from the hypnotic charm that this product has in my hands.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors Pentium
Mar 19, 2008
15,004
32,176
It's frustrating to me that after all this time of Apple making their own chips, and the performance vs efficiency it seems like they are able to get...

Why can't we get phones that are thin/light (and small!)

Every phone they make now just seems like a brick, save for the Mini (that they axed)

Just such a bummer.

Every option is big or "bigger" -- and all heavy
 

Kierkegaarden

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2018
2,380
4,034
USA
My daughter absolutely loves her SE, and I also love my 6S (which has very similar internals). Both work perfectly fine with the newest iOS, and have incredibly good sound quality with high end wired headphones. These are the last true audiophile Apple iPhones.

I predict they will continue to go up in price used up until Apple decides to no longer support them with iOS updates. They have enough RAM (2GB) that they could probably continue to support them for a few more years if they decide to. RAM is usually the deciding factor for ending iOS support for older iPhones.

Wireless headphones/AirPods are fine for their intended purpose; but there is no reason I should have to carry around dongles to connect quality headphones to my device.

As an aside; DAP devices are getting more and more popular, and can run $700++. An iPhone SE or 6S can compete with many of these for efficient headphones/IEMs that don't require ridiculous amounts of power.

Apple could easily earn $1500 from me if they shipped any modern iPhone with a headphone jack. I thought these guys were supposed to be the biggest Music company (production, streaming, etc). At least their pro laptops still have decent audio jacks.

When you offer a teenager a modern iPhone and they prefer to keep their SE; that is saying something. "Sorry, Dad, I need my headphones. And I don't want to carry around my AirPods when running around the city; I'd probably lose one."
I don’t get the obsession over having a headphone jack on a phone. I use my phone for calls, listening to podcasts, audiobooks, some music — AirPods are perfect for this and much better than wired for the convenience and freedom of movement. I have nice over-ear cans, but these I use directly into my MacBook or an interface because I am stationary.

If you think I’m wrong — just look around. I don’t see anybody wearing wired in public. Anyone that does is in the minority — either they don’t like change or don’t want to spend the $100 on AirPods.
 

Kierkegaarden

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2018
2,380
4,034
USA
I still have the 2016 SE, 2020 SE, and 13PM. Much prefer the 13PM for my eyes and ease of typing. Battery is much better in the 13PM too.

I like both the 2016 SE and 13PM designs. I was never a fan of the rounded side years. I also prefer the round buttons on the 2016 SE, just for aesthetic reasons.

I think the next SE will have straight sides like the 2016 — along with full screen and power button Touch ID. It would then make sense to release an iPod Touch (which could be just called “iPod”) alongside it with a similar package. This is not even a rumor — just a hope.
 

sorgo †

Cancelled
Feb 16, 2016
2,871
7,046
I don’t get the obsession over having a headphone jack on a phone. I use my phone for calls, listening to podcasts, audiobooks, some music — AirPods are perfect for this and much better than wired for the convenience and freedom of movement. I have nice over-ear cans, but these I use directly into my MacBook or an interface because I am stationary.

If you think I’m wrong — just look around. I don’t see anybody wearing wired in public. Anyone that does is in the minority — either they don’t like change or don’t want to spend the $100 on AirPods.
As someone already mentioned, it’s more of an audiophile/music fanatic thing. Even the bundled, 3.5mm-equipped EarPods sound great because wired headphones pretty much just always sound better than their bluetooth counterparts, even the relatively-expensive ones. I love my AirPods and think they sound pretty good while offering tons of convenience, but that’s just how the technology works, for better or for worse. It’s understandable if someone doesn’t care about the technical granularities of audio reproduction, though—it’s all quite subjective at the end of the day.

Also people still do go around with wired headphones (especially EarPods): They’re retro-chic, low-brow, un-nerdy, understated and effortlessly ”cool” to a lot of these AirPod-surrounded Gen-Z/Millennial kids and adults. Maybe for those reasons those that use them don’t feel an urge to “show off” and thus fly under the radar.

I’m grateful for this conversation and for the reminder of exactly why my first-gen SE made that Japan trip so special—it was the music. I’m sure I listened to a wide range of stuff as I usually try to do, but I remember falling in love with Madonna’s back catalogue and Grimes’s Art Angels in particular. The familiar, almost-invisible-in-its-simplicity listening experience over the EarPods paired with the iPhone’s onboard DAC and amp certainly must have helped make such a dreamlike experience reality.
 

Kierkegaarden

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2018
2,380
4,034
USA
As someone already mentioned, it’s more of an audiophile/music fanatic thing. Even the bundled, 3.5mm-equipped EarPods sound great because wired headphones pretty much just always sound better than their bluetooth counterparts, even the relatively-expensive ones. I love my AirPods and think they sound pretty good while offering tons of convenience, but that’s just how the technology works, for better or for worse. It’s understandable if someone doesn’t care about the technical granularities of audio reproduction, though—it’s all quite subjective at the end of the day.

Also people still do go around with wired headphones (especially EarPods): They’re retro-chic, low-brow, un-nerdy, understated and effortlessly ”cool” to a lot of these AirPod-surrounded Gen-Z/Millennial kids and adults. Maybe for those reasons those that use them don’t feel an urge to “show off” and thus fly under the radar.

I’m grateful for this conversation and for the reminder of exactly why my first-gen SE made that Japan trip so special—it was the music. I’m sure I listened to a wide range of stuff as I usually try to do, but I remember falling in love with Madonna’s back catalogue and Grimes’s Art Angels in particular. The familiar, almost-invisible-in-its-simplicity listening experience over the EarPods paired with the iPhone’s onboard DAC and amp certainly must have helped make such a dreamlike experience reality.
Bring back the iPod! 4” full screen, power button TouchID, headphone jack, no cameras, flat side design, great stereo speakers. Would you buy this? It can’t replace a phone, so that’s why I think they could eliminate the cameras.
 
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sorgo †

Cancelled
Feb 16, 2016
2,871
7,046
Bring back the iPod! 4” full screen, power button TouchID, headphone jack, no cameras, flat side design, great stereo speakers. Would you buy this? It can’t replace a phone, so that’s why I think they could eliminate the cameras.
Yes—absolutely! Please email Tim Apple with your concept, but make sure you claim your cut of the profits! :p
 
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Mark Stone

macrumors 6502
Mar 20, 2022
497
551
In its case.
My first iPhone was the SE from 2016 - I got mine in March 2017 and it changed the meaning of the term "smartphone" for me. I switched from a "giant" Galaxy Note 4, used it for about a year and three months, and replaced it with an 8 Plus simply because I wanted a larger screen. The cheapest iPhone on the market took me away from the Note. I won't go back to Undroid, and it's largely because of the power of that little SE.
 

Tevosn

macrumors regular
Aug 6, 2020
164
174
Peak design for me was by far the iPhone 11 Pro, the biggest downside being its weight, notch and lightning port being a little sharp/uncomfortable whenever you hold the phone by resting it on your littlefinger.
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,636
Indonesia
Peak design for me was by far the iPhone 11 Pro, the biggest downside being its weight, notch and lightning port being a little sharp/uncomfortable whenever you hold the phone by resting it on your littlefinger.
Agree. The 11 Pro feels like the perfected balance between flagship hardware and relatively compact size in the sea of phablets. Too bad Apple went with the larger form factor for the 12/13 Pro.
 
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splitpea

macrumors 65816
Oct 21, 2009
1,137
397
Among the starlings
Have you checked the iPhone mini? It is almost the same size as the 5/5s/SE, and it has edge to edge screen. The iPhone mini imo is the true successor to the spirit of the original SE. It's really amazing holding a phone that tiny with all screen.
The 12/13 mini is too large for one-handed use for many of us for whom the original SE was almost-perfect.

Signed, a former SE owner and now reluctant mini owner.

——————

I could use the SE — with a nice solid case — all day one-handed, no problem. The mini I can’t use one-handed with a case, and barely without one. This phone takes more drop damage every month than my SE did in almost 5 years.
 

mectojic

macrumors 65816
Dec 27, 2020
1,232
2,376
Sydney, Australia
I don't just use the headphone jack because:

a) it's cheaper
b) it sounds better
c) it's a universal standard (can plug into any device, new or old, Apple or non-Apple, and it will work)
d) they're retro-chic these days
e) it's better for right-to-repear, since there's not li-on batteries constantly degrading...

No, I also use headphones because I despise Apple's excuse of being "brave". I'm not buying it. Airpods are ok, but removing the jack was pure greed.

And now that iPhones are heavy and huge, there's no excuse to say it's about saving space. It's not 2017 anymore.
 

Andeddu

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Dec 21, 2016
1,646
2,047
The 12/13 mini is too large for one-handed use for many of us for whom the original SE was almost-perfect.

Signed, a former SE owner and now reluctant mini owner.

——————

I could use the SE — with a nice solid case — all day one-handed, no problem. The mini I can’t use one-handed with a case, and barely without one. This phone takes more drop damage every month than my SE did in almost 5 years.

I didn’t realise the Mini was so big before I began using this. It has far more width than the SE rendering it more difficult to hold. I have always been used to using phones with 2 hands because I started with the 6S and never went smaller.

The SE is so mobile when picking it up from your pocket, using it and sticking it back in. Even the Mini causes a little ordeal sometimes when I am trying to get it out of my pocket whilst sitting down.

Aesthetically, I don’t think there is a problem with the bezels and home button or the way this device looks at all. Unless there’s a hardware issue preventing a modern A13/A14/A15 chip from being placed into a device in this form factor, I know Apple would make more money adopting this design again.

I would certainly sell my 12 Mini and buy one!
 

Andeddu

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Dec 21, 2016
1,646
2,047
Same - my main worry becomes App support.

I've heard many devs mention how "thrilled" they'll be when 4" screen sizes aren't something they have to worry about anymore.

Translation -- the countdown will begin for apps to start being "borked" on 4" screens...and in the modern era, at some point things stop working right if you aren't on the latest major iOS version.

This is a concern also. I don’t know how quickly App support will be abandoned on the SE after the system becomes unsupported by Apple.

Even though my SE has a small screen, I still use it as a smartphone. I have several media platforms which I am subscribed to and like to watch shows on this thing as the screen is just about large enough to enjoy that sort of content. There really isn’t anything I did on the Mini that I can’t do on this SE so I appreciate Apple for supporting it for this long. I prefer this thing as a music player also because it’s so easy to slip in and out of the pocket.

I am just glad I had the chance to pick this thing up after so long and still find it a pleasant and useable experience. I always wanted one but never had the chance to use it. I picked up my 6S in early March 2016 not knowing the SE was about to be imminently released. My girlfriend back then had a 6S and chipped in to purchase one for my birthday. I wanted to swap in April but decided to keep the 6S as the screen quality was top notch and I had no problems with it other than its size.

I just had a weird yearning for the SE despite already having the Mini. I know it’s illogical but have always to go back to a proper phone form factor as all phones produced these days are various sizes of phablet.

Ah well, better late than never with the SE, lol.

Now I finally understand why there’s a small cult of users dedicated to the Gen 1 SE!
 

Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
34,528
50,123
In the middle of several books.
The 12/13 mini is too large for one-handed use for many of us for whom the original SE was almost-perfect.

Signed, a former SE owner and now reluctant mini owner.

——————

I could use the SE — with a nice solid case — all day one-handed, no problem. The mini I can’t use one-handed with a case, and barely without one. This phone takes more drop damage every month than my SE did in almost 5 years.
With Reachablity feature and the ability to set your keyboard to left hand or right hand use, how is the mini too big for one-hand use?
 
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splitpea

macrumors 65816
Oct 21, 2009
1,137
397
Among the starlings
With Reachablity feature and the ability to set your keyboard to left hand or right hand use, how is the mini too big for one-hand use?
Not being able to reach either far side of the screen with your thumb without dropping it. And Reachability is a joke. Even if you can enable it one handed without dropping the phone, it slows you way down, eliminates almost all the screen real estate with the keyboard open; and I _still_ can’t reach buttons in the corners.
 

Saturn007

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2010
1,463
1,330
Love the iPhone SE, too! Laugh out loud every time I see someone holding a phablet against their ear!

For me, though, it's pocketability over “reachability”. Easy fit in pants or shirt pocket; easy in and out; comfortable.

In any case, I never use my iPhones without a case or two hands. One-handed use is just asking for a disaster! It's so much easier to hold the phone in one hand and tap out messages or URLs — or tap on icons or links — with the other.

For nighttime reading in bed, the iPod Touch is even better, with its incredibly slim profile and its light weight.
 
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