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Spoilers "Ted Lasso" Discussion Thread (May Contain Spoilers)
- Thread starter nutmac
- Start date
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Well, I think that Sam definitely made the right decision . . .
Great episode.
I predict Trent Crimm will replace Kelley at AFC Richmond, as the clubs marketing manager and publicist.
Great episode.
I predict Trent Crimm will replace Kelley at AFC Richmond, as the clubs marketing manager and publicist.
Replaced his "Trent Crimm ... The Independent" moniker... with "Trent Crimm ... independent"
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Although honestly, I don't understand what Nate is bitter about? I know he says Ted made him feel important and then abandoned him, but I didn't get that from this season at all.
I suspect that is Nate projecting from his father's abandonment of him.
Great ending. I actually choked up a bit at the game result. Rebecca's facial expression nuances when Sam was in the room with Ted were just great to watch.
My take about Nate: because his self-esteem needs are so great, Ted could not have sustained Nate's initial rush of recognition and acceptance. He felt let down--"abandoned"--by Ted for not constantly buoying his tremendous ego needs. Ted expected Nate to be part of the coaching team, not its superstar. Nate needed Ted to give him everything his own father hadn't. He had a taste of success but it still wasn't enough to overcome the damage done by his father. He had to blame someone. What he said to Ted was really what he wants to say to his father.
My take about Nate: because his self-esteem needs are so great, Ted could not have sustained Nate's initial rush of recognition and acceptance. He felt let down--"abandoned"--by Ted for not constantly buoying his tremendous ego needs. Ted expected Nate to be part of the coaching team, not its superstar. Nate needed Ted to give him everything his own father hadn't. He had a taste of success but it still wasn't enough to overcome the damage done by his father. He had to blame someone. What he said to Ted was really what he wants to say to his father.
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The reaction of Edwin Akufo to Sams decision was toxic, incredibly horrible. And Sam handled it superbly. I'm looking forward to his restaurant business developing, and further progress with Rebecca. You can tell that they both want to be together.
So many great comments on this discussion but I’m going to react to this one because…Sam! Oh my God I loved all the expressions that crossed his face as he watched Edwin’s reaction, which was just over the top spoiled toddler throwing his toys out of the pram, but hilarious. He’s so young but he’s so dignified and mature in the ways he needs to be.
I also loved Daniel’s moment when he looked over at the greyhound puppy wearing the helmet and his face lit up and he uttered the words that made him famous. Futbol is life! You could see in that moment he truly believed. It was the moment my heart has been waiting for. This show will make a sports lover out of me yet!
I just love seeing the team members have their moments this episode. This episode did tie all the little dramas together so well. Really, everyone has their moments.
One thing I do treasure about this show is all of these actors convey so much with their faces. That’s sort of becoming scarce in American TV and cinema.
For example, I saw a movie clip with Megan Fox in it and she was supposed to be trying to escape from a psycho killer or something and she’s supposed to look terrified. But girlfriend did something to her face and it just doesn’t move. She just looked sort of concerned and that was about it. Beautiful woman, but she is an actress and she can’t convey emotion on her face. It’s like a doll mask. It broke my heart to see Kristin Chenowith going down that route, too. Don’t get me started on Nicole Kidman! I know she’s Australian but her face has “gone Hollywood
So to me, Rebecca is exquisite. Imagine that, an actress over 35 who isn’t Botoxed and stuffed with fillers can move every muscle in her face and make us feel what she’s feeling! God bless British stage actresses who haven’t gone Hollywood.
Speaking of that…Dr. Sharon is a presence even as a voice mail message. Can we please have her back? I guess she’s played her part and is done, but I miss her. I’m going to hunt down actress Sarah Niles and watch whatever she’s in. Unfortunately for me, she’s been primarily a stage actress in England! I hope she seeks out some more film or tv roles I can see her in.
Nate, oh Nate. Nate Nate Nate Nate. 😪
I admit I am so confused by Nate. I get that he is projecting stuff from his dad onto Ted...but none of his actions last night made sense. He railed on that he didn't want the team to continue his fake nine tactics because it wouldn't work and then he would be blamed. And yet, Ted and the team DID trust him, and it DID work. So instead of Nate being happy, he gets mad like a three year old and tears up the Believe sign? After they ACTUALLY DID BELIEVE IN HIM??? I know they needed to set up for season three, but that just seemed a bit unbelievable to me.
Well, Nate first shouted at Ted that Nate will get the blame and that's why he is angry at Ted, now the Team wins, Nate was wrong, now he can't go "I told you so". Now he gets ashamed, which makes him angry. I think it's very believable reaction he showed there. It's not the reaction of a stable person, but it's one someone like Nate would do.
You bring out a good point that he wasn’t making sense. But nothing he is doing lately comes from a place of logic and sound thinking. It’s all rage and pent up resentment bubbling up to the surface. It’s actually realistic to how people really can be. But it’s not the orderly progression from a reasonable mind, so yes it does seem unbelievable. But man oh man, have I seen people do unbelievable acts of self sabotage in real life.
I had a friend who is pretty much Nate’s story in feminine form and she did to me what Nate did to coach when I tried to be helpful and supportive. Except I was one in a long series of people she did that to. I was basically the last friend standing at that time. Over and over she seems compelled to recreating this punishment of a parent who now has been dead a few years. She even fired her therapist when close to a breakthrough because she is addicted to feeding that anger. It’s quite tragic. I think Coach Ted is on some level aware that Nate was not yelling at him, which is why he apparently was able to bounce back even from attacks to this vulnerability about his son. We see his awareness later extend to Sam’s comments to him.
I do hope Trent Crimm does come work with Ted. Trent gave him respect and a fair shake despite having to do that damaging article on him. I think Ted is going to need someone like that on his side because things are going to get uglier with Nate.
I hope for a happy ending for Nate even though so far in my real life I have not seen a happy ending for various friends because they won’t pull their heads out of their backsides. It’s more important they feel they are right all the time instead of just taking a breath and seeing truth.
But I’ve had some happy resolutions for myself, so I do BELIEVE in the possibility, always. You just have to work really hard for them and give up something to gain something greater. We may get to see that process happen with Rebecca. She’s learning how to be vulnerable and open again after Rupert stomped all over her in their marriage. If she can do this, well maybe she will have Sam or something else wonderful happens for her.
I do wonder what’s going to happen with Coach Beard and Jane. That is such a weird little side story.
I sure hope not. Season 1 was delightful precisely because of the caricature-like cast. Fleshing out the psychological background of the characters in Season 2 did not do anything for me.
You make a great point regarding Rebecca (rather, Hannah Waddingham) and her realism, if that's the right way to put it. I wouldn't have thought of that aspect of her acting myself, but now that you point it out I not only agree completely, it makes me appreciate her (as an actress, as well as her performance here) even more.
Boy, too much stuff to quote, lol. Lots of good points here, and apologies to @GrumpyMom, @Phil77354, @WildSky and others if I go over stuff they've already posted!
So I like to look at this as the hero's journey. This works mostly with Ted. The hero's journey is a pretty common framework:
--We meet the hero. He's a good man (Ted, Luke Skywalker) that leads a life removed from the action (Kansas, Tatooine), which gives him a perhaps naive set of ideals (niceness is always more important than winning, I fight for the forces of good agains the forces of evil). If the hero stays true to those ideals, then he believes that nothing bad can happen.
--The hero ventures out into the world, and his ideals do him good in the beginning (Nate blossoms, Rebecca and Roy find themselves, the Death Star is destroyed).
--At some point, the hero comes up against the REAL foe (Ted's abandonment issues, Luke's denial of his dark side), which takes the form of someone close to him (the betrayed Nate, Darth Vader).
--With the help of a wise mentor (Dr. Sharon Fieldstone, Ben Kenobi/Yoda) the hero comes to understand why his original ideals aren't enough in the real world, and begins to reluctantly face the reality inside.
--There comes a moment when the hero finally understands that his original ideals are not enough to win (Nate confronts Ted, Luke learns of his parentage). He must now fully accept his entire identity and relate to the world without denial.
So Season 3 will be the resolution. Ted is no longer naive enough to believe that simply acknowledging people's pain is enough to help them. He has to accept that he himself is a moving piece of the puzzle. As well, he can no longer feel he is a good man just because he makes people feel good. He has to find self-worth in himself, so that when someone does push him away (his wife, Nate) he has resources within himself to move on.
Ted is co-dependent: he bases his self-worth on the value he brings to other people's lives. Nate is counter-dependent: he believes he is worthy by his nature, and that everybody else owes him that recognition. The goal is to be inter-dependent: that both sides of the equation are true and mingle with each other. Both Ted and Nate have the challenge before them to find their way to inter-dependence.
Really, Season 2 is about everyone identifying his personal demon, and redefining his relationship with it. Both Ted and Nate have to come to terms with their histories with their fathers. Ted has had guidance, and seems to be on the way to reconciling it. He also acknowledges that his father was a good man, and I think that is a recognition that helps. Nate has not come to terms and he has not acknowledged (at least on screen) anything redeeming about his father. He continues to keep it bottled up, and he is not on the way to reconciling it. He instead is looking for ways to lash out because of it.
Rebecca has also identified that she hates her father and has hated her mother as a part of that. She, too, is on a journey to find value within herself so that she doesn't need validation from a man (I'm really not comfortable typing that, but that's how I see it unfortunately). Roy is struggling with his own value in a post-playing-career world. He has even begun to question the value in his playing career, sort of (note his conversation with Phoebe, where I get a feeling he is suggesting Phoebe's goals are more worthwhile than his were). If Keeley doesn't need him, then where is he?
Is it our destiny to become our fathers or our mothers? If so, Ted at least sees some hope in this. Nate does not. Rebecca is learning to have hope.
Keeley also uncovered her personal demon, one she didn't even know was there: she now has to face the world with a different part of herself, one she feels she isn't good with. Her battle wasn't choosing between Roy and Jamie. She's very familiar with the rules of that fight. Her real battle is coming up, where she has to find reserves in herself she doesn't yet think are there.
Sam is the counterpoint to all of it. He has a healthy relationship with his father, and (thus far, at least) he seems prepared to handle what life has thrown his way. His amused expression as Edwin Akufo goes on his rant is priceless. And note specifically how he responds to Edwin's threat that he will never be on the Nigerian World Cup team. Sam identified that as his dream, back in Season 1. This Sam has grown into someone that does not need that to find self-worth.
I wonder if Sam starting the restaurant is a method for the show to continue the struggle with Edwin. The restaurant is a thing that Edwin can threaten. I'm not sure I like the idea of this being a story line, but I do like continuing to examine how Sam interacts with life, either as a counterpoint to Nate and Ted, or just as we await whatever his big struggle is.
I understand why people are shocked by Nate's turnaround, but it isn't sudden. Nick Mohammed wrote about Nate yesterday. I hope this link works to show what he wrote. I hadn't remembered that the opening shot of the second season is essentially the same as the closing, but with Nate before and after. That all makes this feel like in a way this season is Nate's story, kinda. It's Revenge of the Sith.
I will miss Trent Crimm. I get why there is some suggestion among critics and fans that perhaps he will take Keeley's place, but that seems just a little too neat and tidy to me. We are through the first two seasons, and at this point the should know the struggles each of our main characters face. We don't really know anything about Trent. I hope he remains present in the show, but I think he will continue to be one of those outside forces, a representation of the rest of the "real world" against which we can measure both Ted and Nate.
I'm ready for Season 3! But first, a rewatch of Season 2...
So I like to look at this as the hero's journey. This works mostly with Ted. The hero's journey is a pretty common framework:
--We meet the hero. He's a good man (Ted, Luke Skywalker) that leads a life removed from the action (Kansas, Tatooine), which gives him a perhaps naive set of ideals (niceness is always more important than winning, I fight for the forces of good agains the forces of evil). If the hero stays true to those ideals, then he believes that nothing bad can happen.
--The hero ventures out into the world, and his ideals do him good in the beginning (Nate blossoms, Rebecca and Roy find themselves, the Death Star is destroyed).
--At some point, the hero comes up against the REAL foe (Ted's abandonment issues, Luke's denial of his dark side), which takes the form of someone close to him (the betrayed Nate, Darth Vader).
--With the help of a wise mentor (Dr. Sharon Fieldstone, Ben Kenobi/Yoda) the hero comes to understand why his original ideals aren't enough in the real world, and begins to reluctantly face the reality inside.
--There comes a moment when the hero finally understands that his original ideals are not enough to win (Nate confronts Ted, Luke learns of his parentage). He must now fully accept his entire identity and relate to the world without denial.
So Season 3 will be the resolution. Ted is no longer naive enough to believe that simply acknowledging people's pain is enough to help them. He has to accept that he himself is a moving piece of the puzzle. As well, he can no longer feel he is a good man just because he makes people feel good. He has to find self-worth in himself, so that when someone does push him away (his wife, Nate) he has resources within himself to move on.
Ted is co-dependent: he bases his self-worth on the value he brings to other people's lives. Nate is counter-dependent: he believes he is worthy by his nature, and that everybody else owes him that recognition. The goal is to be inter-dependent: that both sides of the equation are true and mingle with each other. Both Ted and Nate have the challenge before them to find their way to inter-dependence.
Really, Season 2 is about everyone identifying his personal demon, and redefining his relationship with it. Both Ted and Nate have to come to terms with their histories with their fathers. Ted has had guidance, and seems to be on the way to reconciling it. He also acknowledges that his father was a good man, and I think that is a recognition that helps. Nate has not come to terms and he has not acknowledged (at least on screen) anything redeeming about his father. He continues to keep it bottled up, and he is not on the way to reconciling it. He instead is looking for ways to lash out because of it.
Rebecca has also identified that she hates her father and has hated her mother as a part of that. She, too, is on a journey to find value within herself so that she doesn't need validation from a man (I'm really not comfortable typing that, but that's how I see it unfortunately). Roy is struggling with his own value in a post-playing-career world. He has even begun to question the value in his playing career, sort of (note his conversation with Phoebe, where I get a feeling he is suggesting Phoebe's goals are more worthwhile than his were). If Keeley doesn't need him, then where is he?
Is it our destiny to become our fathers or our mothers? If so, Ted at least sees some hope in this. Nate does not. Rebecca is learning to have hope.
Keeley also uncovered her personal demon, one she didn't even know was there: she now has to face the world with a different part of herself, one she feels she isn't good with. Her battle wasn't choosing between Roy and Jamie. She's very familiar with the rules of that fight. Her real battle is coming up, where she has to find reserves in herself she doesn't yet think are there.
Sam is the counterpoint to all of it. He has a healthy relationship with his father, and (thus far, at least) he seems prepared to handle what life has thrown his way. His amused expression as Edwin Akufo goes on his rant is priceless. And note specifically how he responds to Edwin's threat that he will never be on the Nigerian World Cup team. Sam identified that as his dream, back in Season 1. This Sam has grown into someone that does not need that to find self-worth.
I wonder if Sam starting the restaurant is a method for the show to continue the struggle with Edwin. The restaurant is a thing that Edwin can threaten. I'm not sure I like the idea of this being a story line, but I do like continuing to examine how Sam interacts with life, either as a counterpoint to Nate and Ted, or just as we await whatever his big struggle is.
I understand why people are shocked by Nate's turnaround, but it isn't sudden. Nick Mohammed wrote about Nate yesterday. I hope this link works to show what he wrote. I hadn't remembered that the opening shot of the second season is essentially the same as the closing, but with Nate before and after. That all makes this feel like in a way this season is Nate's story, kinda. It's Revenge of the Sith.
I will miss Trent Crimm. I get why there is some suggestion among critics and fans that perhaps he will take Keeley's place, but that seems just a little too neat and tidy to me. We are through the first two seasons, and at this point the should know the struggles each of our main characters face. We don't really know anything about Trent. I hope he remains present in the show, but I think he will continue to be one of those outside forces, a representation of the rest of the "real world" against which we can measure both Ted and Nate.
I'm ready for Season 3! But first, a rewatch of Season 2...
(I was finishing this post just as @lkalliance posted a similar long thoughtful post, apologies back to you if we overlap with our observations! I'm enjoying the differences in perspective and how we are all interpreting the last episode and season overall)
Re-watching the Season Finale (multiple spoiler alert), I feel that there were so many great moments, some being:
- Ted checking his text and phone messages, the voice mail from Dr. Sharon and his text exchange with his ex-wife Michelle
- Jamie apologizing to Roy about telling Keeley that he still loves her
- Keeley on the phone with someone offering to interview Ted, and her comment after hanging up (** you Piers Morgan)
- Ted telling the team about his panic attack - 'y'all found out about something from somewhere, when you should've found out about it from me first' (and catch Sam's face when Ted mentions taking a job halfway around the world)
- And I have to include Ted's mention of 'John Obi-Wan Gandalf'
- Watching this episode for the second time, knowing how it ends up, noticing how many times Ted refers to 'Nate the Great's false nine'. He gave Nate credit at every opportunity . . .
- The scene in Higgens' office with the mascot finalists (from Barkingham Palace) - and how the dog breeder comes on to Keeley ('Huuuuuge fan')
- Sam's phone conversation with his father (and will we ever meet him face-to-face? The actor who portrays his father seems to be Nonso Anozie. He has a great voice, especially his laugh!)
- Keeley's long scene with Roy, where he tells her about Jamie (Keeley - 'did you kill him?' . . . ), Keeley tells him about the offer to support her opening her own firm, and they see the preview of the Vanity Fair article (notice Keeley holding an iPad Pro)
- Nate's facial expressions throughout the episode. He is clearly 9/10ths of the way out the door from the beginning of the episode (and Roy not getting mad at him when he tells everyone that he kissed Keeley was taken as another insult, piled on all of the rest)
- Keeley and Rebecca crying together after Keeley tells her she'll be opening her own firm (and notice that Keeley does not actually promise Rebecca that she won't work for Rupert)
- Roy won't bump fists with Jamie before the game, but afterwards he head-butts him then they hug
- Having the team decide for themselves to stick with the false nine, putting their hands on 'Believe' as they go out for the second half of the match (Isaac's leadership has been so understated and great)
- The cathartic scene with Roy and Nate, recalls the reactions of the players at the beginning of the first season, how they were so dismissive and critical of Ted. And now we are to the point where he has earned their respect and trust, but Nate has gone in the other direction (after being promoted from ball boy to assistant coach by Ted, and earning his own respect but somehow not realizing it)
- Sam makes the first goal in the second half, but the best moment was Jamie handing the ball to Dani Rojas ("Football is life"!!) for the tie! Jamie has come full circle now, showing that Ted's respect for him from the beginning has helped him transform himself
- Notice that the uniforms now show bantr as sponsor, replacing Dubai Air (that Sam had led the protest against, early in season 2)
- Sam turning down Edwin Akufo, his outburst, even Akufo's assistant's withdrawn handshake with Nate
- of course Ted's speech to the pressroom, telling them about his anxiety and how it is dealt with in athletics
- Sam walking in to Rebecca's office when she and Ted are talking, telling them "I'm staying because it's what's best for me and my personal journey"
- Trent Crimm locks himself out of his car? What's with that? (nice classic Mercedes coupe, though)
- Keeley turns down Roy's offer to vacation in Marbella, the later scenes give us snapshots into the following couple of months but it's not clear if Roy did decide to go by himself, and if so what happened in the meantime (and afterwards) between him and Keeley. (Keeley: 'are you sure they still take paper tickets at airports', 'am I gonna be able to smoke on the flight?')
- Nate looking into the camera at the end - game on!
Re-watching the Season Finale (multiple spoiler alert), I feel that there were so many great moments, some being:
- Ted checking his text and phone messages, the voice mail from Dr. Sharon and his text exchange with his ex-wife Michelle
- Jamie apologizing to Roy about telling Keeley that he still loves her
- Keeley on the phone with someone offering to interview Ted, and her comment after hanging up (** you Piers Morgan)
- Ted telling the team about his panic attack - 'y'all found out about something from somewhere, when you should've found out about it from me first' (and catch Sam's face when Ted mentions taking a job halfway around the world)
- And I have to include Ted's mention of 'John Obi-Wan Gandalf'
- Watching this episode for the second time, knowing how it ends up, noticing how many times Ted refers to 'Nate the Great's false nine'. He gave Nate credit at every opportunity . . .
- The scene in Higgens' office with the mascot finalists (from Barkingham Palace) - and how the dog breeder comes on to Keeley ('Huuuuuge fan')
- Sam's phone conversation with his father (and will we ever meet him face-to-face? The actor who portrays his father seems to be Nonso Anozie. He has a great voice, especially his laugh!)
- Keeley's long scene with Roy, where he tells her about Jamie (Keeley - 'did you kill him?' . . . ), Keeley tells him about the offer to support her opening her own firm, and they see the preview of the Vanity Fair article (notice Keeley holding an iPad Pro)
- Nate's facial expressions throughout the episode. He is clearly 9/10ths of the way out the door from the beginning of the episode (and Roy not getting mad at him when he tells everyone that he kissed Keeley was taken as another insult, piled on all of the rest)
- Keeley and Rebecca crying together after Keeley tells her she'll be opening her own firm (and notice that Keeley does not actually promise Rebecca that she won't work for Rupert)
- Roy won't bump fists with Jamie before the game, but afterwards he head-butts him then they hug
- Having the team decide for themselves to stick with the false nine, putting their hands on 'Believe' as they go out for the second half of the match (Isaac's leadership has been so understated and great)
- The cathartic scene with Roy and Nate, recalls the reactions of the players at the beginning of the first season, how they were so dismissive and critical of Ted. And now we are to the point where he has earned their respect and trust, but Nate has gone in the other direction (after being promoted from ball boy to assistant coach by Ted, and earning his own respect but somehow not realizing it)
- Sam makes the first goal in the second half, but the best moment was Jamie handing the ball to Dani Rojas ("Football is life"!!) for the tie! Jamie has come full circle now, showing that Ted's respect for him from the beginning has helped him transform himself
- Notice that the uniforms now show bantr as sponsor, replacing Dubai Air (that Sam had led the protest against, early in season 2)
- Sam turning down Edwin Akufo, his outburst, even Akufo's assistant's withdrawn handshake with Nate
- of course Ted's speech to the pressroom, telling them about his anxiety and how it is dealt with in athletics
- Sam walking in to Rebecca's office when she and Ted are talking, telling them "I'm staying because it's what's best for me and my personal journey"
- Trent Crimm locks himself out of his car? What's with that? (nice classic Mercedes coupe, though)
- Keeley turns down Roy's offer to vacation in Marbella, the later scenes give us snapshots into the following couple of months but it's not clear if Roy did decide to go by himself, and if so what happened in the meantime (and afterwards) between him and Keeley. (Keeley: 'are you sure they still take paper tickets at airports', 'am I gonna be able to smoke on the flight?')
- Nate looking into the camera at the end - game on!
This is so much fun reading everyone's analyses and thoughts. I love how lively this thread is!