Spoilers "Ted Lasso" Discussion Thread (May Contain Spoilers)

[0128672]

I think that worrying about Keeley and Jamie is unfounded. The writers have earned our trust. There are tropes that have been set up to appear obvious, that were then curve-balled, especially this season. Dr. Fieldstone shows up and convention suggests she and Ted will be in a power struggle for the heart of the team...only they aren't. Hints are dropped all over the place that Rebecca and Ted are on the verge of a romantic relationship...only they aren't. Beard catches Nate being a jerk, Nate apologizes and the team forgives him and Nate is ready to embrace being less toxic again...only he isn't.

I'm confident that whatever is coming between Keeley and Roy and Jamie, that it will play out in a way that the tropes don't generally suggest.

It's clear to me that Season 1 was not the raison d'etre of the show. That was Act I: Introduction. We get to know all these characters in what will turn out to be mild conflict. Season 2 is the crux. Act II: Peril. We are putting these characters into terrible places (emotionally). We are in the Dark Forest. Act III will be Resolution.

I think it's going to get darker. The worst part, I think, will be Nate. I don't think most of this will happen until next season, but will get set up perhaps in the last two episodes this season:

--Rupert is giving up Bex's shares so he can buy a different team, and he is going to poach Nate to be his coach. That feels like the cleanest explanation of the events from last episode. This is a trope, but it's the trope to set things up.
--We will not resolve Nate's anger issues this season. Put into a position of authority, and with only toxic personalities (Rupert and anyone he's likely to hire in the Higgins role) above him on the food chain, his anger will become more public, and worse.
--Least worrisome possibility? Nate ends up coaching against Richmond in an important game. The show stands tropes on their heads, so I could definitely see the writers setting this up and having it end in an unexpected way, something very outside the bounds of the rom-com.
--Next most worrisome possibility? Nate does something to his father. Their relationship becomes broken, the counterpoint to Ted coming to terms with his father's suicide. This might not be what will happen because we already have Jamie and James Tartt. But perhaps.
--Most worrisome possibility? Nate will lash out at a woman. Someone like Jade from the restaurant. Physical and/or verbal and/or emotional abuse. I fear that this is something they're building to. He's already shown his toxicity in big and small ways; he's already expressed his frustration with women. It will get worse when he has no one to talk him down from the ledge, until there is an unforgiveable action.

The others I don't have a clear idea. Rebecca and Sam I don't know. The big obvious outcomes just wouldn't be like the show. The one I really hope doesn't happen is Sam making some big gesture or coming to the rescue and convincing Rebecca that she really can't be complete without a man. Ugh. But I don't really know. From the sound of the text blurb for the next episode we will get some other part of this setup. I suppose her being with Ted is still in play, if boring. The two of them somehow losing themselves in a sad way but having each other to help them through it platonically, is a little less boring. But I have no idea.

Beard? No clue. Higgins, nothing.

I get the issues Keeley might have. She spent however much time trying to mold Jamie. She connects with Roy, but Roy has all season shown that though he is more mature than Jamie was, Keeley is still teaching him lessons. With Jamie finding a more mature version of himself this season, suddenly it's Roy with his swearing and his sometimes gruff and unnuanced way of looking at the world that seems the childish one, maybe? Keeley may see in Jamie now the man she has been trying so hard to groom him OR Roy into. I think that could be great, nuanced conflict between the three. That Roy and Jamie's relationship is so tortured but in flux really adds to this part of the show and I am really excited to see what happens.


Anyway, just my thoughts, I am probably way off base, but I'm just so excited for the last two episodes of the season that I am thinking about it a lot.



EDIT: Just occurred to me, we will get to compare and contrast Rebecca's and Kelley's solutions to their relationship crises. Sounds likely.

Operative word: trope
This was a fun post to read and a well-written and thoughtful analysis.

 

[lkalliance]

Operative word: trope
This was a fun post to read and a well-written and thoughtful analysis.

Thanks!

 

[Mercifull]

I was struggling to work out the overall plot in season 2 but it's clear now that its all about fathers.

Ted: father committed suicide. and I guess he's also the father to the team. He tries to be a good dad to his son from across the pond but resorts to buying expensive gifts
Rebecca: father was a cheater... and then died.
Higgins: He's the epitome of a good father
Nate: dad is horrible, unsupportive and stern which in turn brings out the worst in Nate
Jamie Tartt: His father is horrible and mean, and perhaps explains his own behaviours
Roy Kent: He's sort of becoming a father figure to phoebe whos biological dad appears to be a complete arse
Sam Obisanya: His relationship with his dad and desire for approval ultimately lead to the scrapping of the DubaiAir sponsorship deal which I'm sure will become important again later on
Beard: Well it was a weird episode but he did sort of become a father figure for the three boys from the pub too
Rupert: Rebeccas cheating ex has now become a dad... has it truly changed him or is it a facade?

There's probably more I've missed

 

[Phil77354]

I think that worrying about Keeley and Jamie is unfounded. The writers have earned our trust. There are tropes that have been set up to appear obvious, that were then curve-balled, especially this season. Dr. Fieldstone shows up and convention suggests she and Ted will be in a power struggle for the heart of the team...only they aren't. Hints are dropped all over the place that Rebecca and Ted are on the verge of a romantic relationship...only they aren't. Beard catches Nate being a jerk, Nate apologizes and the team forgives him and Nate is ready to embrace being less toxic again...only he isn't.

I'm confident that whatever is coming between Keeley and Roy and Jamie, that it will play out in a way that the tropes don't generally suggest.

It's clear to me that Season 1 was not the raison d'etre of the show. That was Act I: Introduction. We get to know all these characters in what will turn out to be mild conflict. Season 2 is the crux. Act II: Peril. We are putting these characters into terrible places (emotionally). We are in the Dark Forest. Act III will be Resolution.

I think it's going to get darker. The worst part, I think, will be Nate. I don't think most of this will happen until next season, but will get set up perhaps in the last two episodes this season:

--Rupert is giving up Bex's shares so he can buy a different team, and he is going to poach Nate to be his coach. That feels like the cleanest explanation of the events from last episode. This is a trope, but it's the trope to set things up.
--We will not resolve Nate's anger issues this season. Put into a position of authority, and with only toxic personalities (Rupert and anyone he's likely to hire in the Higgins role) above him on the food chain, his anger will become more public, and worse.
--Least worrisome possibility? Nate ends up coaching against Richmond in an important game. The show stands tropes on their heads, so I could definitely see the writers setting this up and having it end in an unexpected way, something very outside the bounds of the rom-com.
--Next most worrisome possibility? Nate does something to his father. Their relationship becomes broken, the counterpoint to Ted coming to terms with his father's suicide. This might not be what will happen because we already have Jamie and James Tartt. But perhaps.
--Most worrisome possibility? Nate will lash out at a woman. Someone like Jade from the restaurant. Physical and/or verbal and/or emotional abuse. I fear that this is something they're building to. He's already shown his toxicity in big and small ways; he's already expressed his frustration with women. It will get worse when he has no one to talk him down from the ledge, until there is an unforgiveable action.

The others I don't have a clear idea. Rebecca and Sam I don't know. The big obvious outcomes just wouldn't be like the show. The one I really hope doesn't happen is Sam making some big gesture or coming to the rescue and convincing Rebecca that she really can't be complete without a man. Ugh. But I don't really know. From the sound of the text blurb for the next episode we will get some other part of this setup. I suppose her being with Ted is still in play, if boring. The two of them somehow losing themselves in a sad way but having each other to help them through it platonically, is a little less boring. But I have no idea.

Beard? No clue. Higgins, nothing.

I get the issues Keeley might have. She spent however much time trying to mold Jamie. She connects with Roy, but Roy has all season shown that though he is more mature than Jamie was, Keeley is still teaching him lessons. With Jamie finding a more mature version of himself this season, suddenly it's Roy with his swearing and his sometimes gruff and unnuanced way of looking at the world that seems the childish one, maybe? Keeley may see in Jamie now the man she has been trying so hard to groom him OR Roy into. I think that could be great, nuanced conflict between the three. That Roy and Jamie's relationship is so tortured but in flux really adds to this part of the show and I am really excited to see what happens.


Anyway, just my thoughts, I am probably way off base, but I'm just so excited for the last two episodes of the season that I am thinking about it a lot.



EDIT: Just occurred to me, we will get to compare and contrast Rebecca's and Keeley's solutions to their relationship crises. Sounds likely.

Operative word: trope
This was a fun post to read and a well-written and thoughtful analysis.

I agree completely.

 

[Apple_Robert]

”Your eyebrows aren’t crazy. They are psychotic.”

 

[lkalliance]

I was struggling to work out the overall plot in season 2 but it's clear now that its all about fathers.

Ted: father committed suicide. and I guess he's also the father to the team. He tries to be a good dad to his son from across the pond but resorts to buying expensive gifts
Rebecca: father was a cheater... and then died.
Higgins: He's the epitome of a good father
Nate: dad is horrible, unsupportive and stern which in turn brings out the worst in Nate
Jamie Tartt: His father is horrible and mean, and perhaps explains his own behaviours
Roy Kent: He's sort of becoming a father figure to phoebe whos biological dad appears to be a complete arse
Sam Obisanya: His relationship with his dad and desire for approval ultimately lead to the scrapping of the DubaiAir sponsorship deal which I'm sure will become important again later on
Beard: Well it was a weird episode but he did sort of become a father figure for the three boys from the pub too
Rupert: Rebeccas cheating ex has now become a dad... has it truly changed him or is it a facade?

There's probably more I've missed

Good list!

There's also a few mom moments. Of course we meet Rebecca's mom, but then:

--Rebecca has the brief opportunity to be a parental (at least, god-parental) figure to Nora
--The way Rebecca reacts both to the news and the reality of Rupert having a child. It's a TV-land "motherhood instinct demonstration." I wish it weren't there, it plays into this portrayal of Rebecca as "needing a man and/or a child to be complete." But then again, perhaps that is what she will overcome in Season 3?
--Sassy interacts with Nora: here is the TV-land example of the mom figure who can also be the partier.
--Ted more than once makes sure to say that his father not only "did this" (I find this an interesting and very appropriate way to put it) to him, but to his mother as well.
--Jamie Tartt references his mother in Season 1.
--In the episode where we first meet Deborah, Ted asks Beard how his mom is, and Beard says she went "full Q-anon."
--And here's a deep cut: Dani wants to give his free coffee maker to his neighbor, who wants to use it to inspire her son to visit more. Dani also has a throwaway line where he says his mother thinks he is "pre-caffeinated."

So there's lots of references to mothers. They are less direct than the father issues, but they're there, and they represent a pretty good range of motherhood depictions.

 

[Phil77354]

I'm starting to hate Nate.

 

[0128672]

I'm starting to hate Nate.

I don't hate him; he just needs to be Lassoed in.

 

[Phil77354]

Anybody else take interest in noticing what Coach Beard is reading in different scenes?

The book he was reading in this most recent episode was this one:

 

[0128672]

Anybody else take interest in noticing what Beard is reading in different scenes?

The book he was reading in this most recent episode was this one:

View attachment 1854038

During that apology/confessions scene the coaches are in, doesn't Beard confess to being accidentally on mushrooms for a game?

 

[lkalliance]

During that apology/confessions scene the coaches are in, doesn't Beard confess to being accidentally on mushrooms for a game?

And the book is by "Merlin Sheldrake"...and Beard disappears magically from Nate's office in one scene...like Merlin might?

 

[Phil77354]

During that apology/confessions scene the coaches are in, doesn't Beard confess to being accidentally on mushrooms for a game?

And the book is by "Merlin Sheldrake"...and Beard disappears magically from Nate's office in one scene...like Merlin might?

You guys are good . . . I'm wondering what other easter eggs are hidden in previous episodes . . .

 

[0128672]

There's this season 1 list of books found after a brief search, so I'm guessing somewhere there's a season 2 list. I think you're onto something @Phil77354 that we should pay attention to the books.

 

[Phil77354]

Cool. Great link.

Reminds me that the first season episodes had made me want to read A Wrinkle in Time, a book I've been aware of my entire life but have never read.

The Coach Wooden Pyramid of Success is great too. One of my greatest college memories is being at the OSU basketball game when we beat UCLA, Wooden coaching Bill Walton and that entire incredible team, just after their multi-year win streak had been ended by Notre Dame . . .

 

[lkalliance]

Reminds me that the first season episodes had made me want to read A Wrinkle in Time, a book I've been aware of my entire life but have never read.

Are you supposed to be the little girl?!

 

[0128672]

Cool. Great link.

Reminds me that the first season episodes had made me want to read A Wrinkle in Time, a book I've been aware of my entire life but have never read.

The Coach Wooden Pyramid of Success is great too. One of my greatest college memories is being at the OSU basketball game when we beat UCLA, Wooden coaching Bill Walton and that entire incredible team, just after their multi-year win streak had been ended by Notre Dame . . .

A Wrinkle in Time is a very cool book and one of my favorites. But seeing Roy reading it was just a perfect moment.

 

[0128672]

I'm starting to hate Nate.

After watching tonight's episode, now I see what you mean. Pretty passive-aggressive.

 

[AZhappyjack]

This episode seemed to be one of many endings... or at least potential endings... and then Nate showed out, no doubt part of his insecurity.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I really enjoyed today's episode. Looking forward to what Ted does next week.

 

[5105973]

I'm starting to hate Nate.

As someone who has had huge butthead moments in my own youth, I try to be tolerant and understanding when young people have their turn at messing up.

But good grief, Nate, dude, that’s too far. That’s way beyond being a butthead or even an ****** or a d-canoe. Dude is creeping me out. I mean it’s really kind of scary when someone doesn’t know how to pick a lane and stay in it. Precisely because you never know when they will swerve to one side and run you over.

He was all meek and mousy and instead of adjusting a few notches above that, he goes all JR Ewing on Ted. Actually he’s more like Empire on the Foundation series, lording it over minions and being ruthless and merciless. (Empire doesn’t have dad issues, but clone issues. Yet the results are oddly similar).

Jeez Louise.

And that’s a serious lack of emotional self control to go spitting on mirrors in a boutique.

He did slay in that dark suit though. I wonder if he bought it and I wonder if that will be part of his Mr. Hyde persona he seems to be working on.

 

[moyjoy]

As someone who has had huge butthead moments in my own youth, I try to be tolerant and understanding when young people have their turn at messing up.

But good grief, Nate, dude, that’s too far. That’s way beyond being a butthead or even an ****** or a d-canoe. Dude is creeping me out. I mean it’s really kind of scary when someone doesn’t know how to pick a lane and stay in it. Precisely because you never know when they will swerve to one side and run you over.

He was all meek and mousy and instead of adjusting a few notches above that, he goes all JR Ewing on Ted. Actually he’s more like Empire on the Foundation series, lording it over minions and being ruthless and merciless. (Empire doesn’t have dad issues, but clone issues. Yet the results are oddly similar).

Jeez Louise.

And that’s a serious lack of emotional self control to go spitting on mirrors in a boutique.

He did slay in that dark suit though. I wonder if he bought it and I wonder if that will be part of his Mr. Hyde persona he seems to be working on.

I have an extreme love|hate relationship with his character development this season! Leaning more towards love though. I mean… he’s the villain we never saw coming! He was just the lovable underdog like yesterday!

 

[happy orchard]

Anybody else take interest in noticing what Coach Beard is reading in different scenes?

The book he was reading in this most recent episode was this one:

View attachment 1854038

I always paused to look closely to discern.

 

[5105973]

I have an extreme love|hate relationship with his character development this season! Leaning more towards love though. I mean… he’s the villain we never saw coming! He was just the lovable underdog like yesterday!

The villain we never saw coming! That’s it! I think he’s one of the best of this kind I’ve ever seen because he was so sweet and thoughtful. Or so he seemed.

But which person is he really? Is he pushing himself against his better nature to be the tough guy he thinks the world and his father would approve of?

Or was he always a nasty person who was too meek and afraid of consequences to act on his genuine nastiness and simmering resentments?

Or is he complex enough to be both?

I’ve stood where he is and think the answer is that he is still too influenced by his parents, so he is still basically a kid in a man’s life and not really anything yet at all. That’s why his clothes have been wearing him and his life doesn’t fit properly, either.

There was a brief moment in his dark suit, before he kissed Keeley where we get a glimpse of the man he could be.

But now, who knows how he’s going to act in that suit. He spit at his reflection while wearing it. So did he reject that man?

I think it’s interesting that he started off in a suit that was a cacaphony of colors and the boutique guy tried to convince him that was him. It did reflect the mess/flux his identity is in at the moment. But who wants to settle into that.

This actor is really good. I don’t yet remember his name but I’m going to see what other roles he’s played.

 

[5105973]

I always paused to look closely to discern.

I’m going to have to do that. It’s hard to do when watching with my whole family. I also have to watch with captioning turned on due to my difficulty with some of the accents and I can get so focused trying to catch all the dialogue that I miss all these little things everyone else is seeing.

 

[lkalliance]

Oof. Nate.

My partner and I are watching with her young adult son. He's caught up on Season 1, and we've watched together Season 2 up through Episode 7. The next episodes coming up are Man City (revelation of the suicide), Coach Beard After Hours, No Weddings and a Funeral (Ted and Rebecca yielding up their horrific childhood memories) and Midnight Train to Royston (The Great Betrayal). I told him, "Buckle up, we are about to truly enter the Dark Forest."

Nate's arc, to me, is the one that has seemed the clearest to dig into. We're all used to TV storytelling, and this is just one place where it's not going that way. Nate has had Ted and Beard as his guides for two seasons, and while it seemed to be fine in the first season, clearly it's not entirely working. I believe that Nate's whole upbringing, both as a man and as a coach, has been under the leadership of toxic men. His father withheld approval for him (and for everything around him) for years. One year with Ted is not going to reverse all of that. Nate had pushed that instinct down, had accepted that role as the put-upon, as the prey instead of the hunter. That can't have been helped (indeed, worsened) by his treatment in the locker room and I would expect from the previous coach and Rupert.

But as Ted and Beard helped Nate get out from under that victim complex, we did get a couple of hints in Season 1 of what lurked underneath, though I admit that's only clear to me in hindsight. He laughs at the anticipated hurt to Jamie in episode 6, and then when he is called out on it he does it again immediately. Later, in episode 7, in his pregame talk to the team at Everton, as he grows in confidence his willingness to say hurtful things comes to the fore.

(It is ironic that he tells Roy that he is afraid of what it will do to him if he keeps his anger all to himself. Well, Nate is getting worse the more he expresses his anger. Perhaps this is what he meant: Nate has had a lifetime of keeping his anger to himself, and this is the result.)

I will be interested to see what comes of all of this. Nate started this season actively bullying Will, and suggesting hurtful things about the players; then he was actively hurtful to Colin in public; and now this. How far will this go? A TV Land outcome somehow has Nate being rehabilitated and brought back into good graces. But his character is such a counterpoint to Ted. Hopefully, Ted's experience with Dr. Sharon gives him the strength he needs to cope when the pressure mounts. But in Nate we already see someone that has all the support he could ask for on the job (and he's not without support at home, either, bless his mom!)...and it hasn't been enough. Just having people who care around you isn't always enough.

Will Nate be rehabilitated? I expect whatever comes in the next episode will be the core setup for Season Three.

I continue to be frustrated sometimes by Rebecca. She is a strong, capable, self-aware woman. She dominates any room she is in, and not in a way like Nate does. That she continues to struggle with relationship issues feels demeaning to me. But, then again, just like Nate, this is not like TV Land. One magical moment won't be enough, I think.

Roy and Keely: I get this fully. I really, really do. We all do things we're not proud of. In Keely's case none of this is her fault. She didn't come on to Nate, she didn't go seeking Jamie. Roy is guilty over how he handled things with Miss Bowen, and over lingering there. But neither of them did anything that in real life should be a cause for concern especially in a relationship that has been characterized by openness and honesty, and has also been a little battle-tested by now.

But here it is: one of those Big Questions. Being honest is good. That is what TV Land teaches us: in no way is it ever a bad thing to come clean and be honest. But this is not always how the world works. I believe that there are times when a hurtful truth should be gently kept. That a white lie is sometimes a better thing for the relationship than the bald truth 100% of the time. Should Roy be this upset over Jamie? Logically, no. But this isn't logic, it's emotion. It's history. Should Keely be that upset over Ms. Bowen? She didn't APPEAR to be to me: she looked distressed that Roy sharing it meant she had to share Jamie's admission. But perhaps she SHOULD be. That's something that struck me about the scene. It built from low-intensity to high-intensity, and I think the part that is most worrisome is the in-between step.

One more thing, one more potential dangling thread heading into Season 3: Coach Beard. I got an impression this year, and that impression has been enhanced with my second viewing, that Beard's patience with Ted is starting to fray. When he blew up at Ted at Mae's pub last season, he didn't just express anger at Ted's decisions with Roy...he suggested he had been stewing over this for a while. "I'm sick of it," he said. This season, I've thought I've noticed that Beard is more exasperated with Ted than last. Watch for his reactions. "I believe in communism. Rom-communism." Watch Beard's face. The whole explanation about Sheffield Wednesday, Beard seemed exasperated. I think I've seen this attitude quite a bit this season, and I didn't notice it at all last season.

Ted and Beard have what strikes me as a pretty standard coaching relationship. Ted is the head coach, concerned not so much with knowing tactics as with making sure he has the right people in place, and that those people are put in the best place to succeed, including the best head space. Coach Beard is the assistant, and he handles the practical matters of tactics and all the legwork that requires. This even extends to their personal life, where Beard has done the work of understanding the cultural and linguistic differences between the UK and the US, and he tries to keep Ted up to speed.

Perhaps Beard has grown tired of this? Perhaps there has been a current of resentment about it underneath. Perhaps stress with Jane, and stress with coping with Ted's anxiety issues (even if he didn't know he was) is beginning to erode his self-control. It will be very interesting to see how Ted deals with the revelation of the Great Betrayal, but also Beard's reaction to Ted's handling of it.

I'm extremely nervous for the season finale!