The Home Improvement Q&A Thread

[jeyf]

i am not an expert so would not have guessed the design as is would not work.

the drain from the sink half w/o the disposal looks low. Maybe just have it come in at more a 45 degree angle.

cut into the wall and and adjust so the trap is sitting on the cabinet floor. would make clean out difficult.

 

[old mac]

Problem with my kitchen sink drainage.
Before I renovated my kitchen, I had a normal surface mount sink. I replaced it with a double deep farm style sink. It projects significantly lower into the cabinet, and what I notice is the over time the drain gets clogged, mostly the branch of the pipe that drains the adjoining sink, not the one where the garbage disposal is located.

It was not problem with the old sink and here is what I think is going on. The clearance from the drain of the garbage disposal is 12” above the bottom of the cabinet. The height of the drain coming out the wall in the back of the cabinet is 10” above the bottom of the cabinet, so there is only a 2” difference in height for drain action through the trap. Therefore, I think the hydraulic action of water draining, by virtue of a only 2” difference in height, makes this action weak. There are two sinks draining into one trap, and those are designed so there are some constructions which makes it easier for food to get caught...however the food has to be blow back from the garbage disposal. The other sink has a dish drainer in it, where handwashed dishes get placed to drip dry. In addition, the drain traverses out of the back of the cabinet (coming forward) 8” level before starting down to connect to the trap that connects both sinks.

• Possible solution, start the drain that comes out of the back wall (currently 8" level), down sooner.
• I can lower the trap about 4 inches, but the differential between the disposal drain, and the height of the drain going into the wall will remain the same.
• I’m not sure if 2 traps would be better, one for each sink would work with a single drain out.
• Look for a shorter garbage disposal, but the disposal part above the motor is 6" tall. Overall shorter I don't think this would help me if the drain height remains 6" below the bottom of the sink.

So, I’m soliticiting opinions on how to minimize these clogs. So far, I’ve had to take the drain apart 4 times to clean it out. Thanks in advance for the anticipated help!!

Same style, but not the sink in my kitchen...

View attachment 741384
​

You will not like this, but you need to lower the drain where it comes out the wall. It looks a little higher than where the other sink merges with the disposer. It is clogging up because water is always in the short horizontal section before the merge. A separate p-trap might fix it.

 

[Huntn]

You will not like this, but you need to lower the drain where it comes out the wall. It looks a little higher than where the other sink merges with the disposer. It is clogging up because water is always in the short horizontal section before the merge. A separate p-trap might fix it.

Thanks for this input. This is what I think currently happens, the water fills the trap and food coming out of the garbage disposal, instead of all of it going into the trap and out the horizontal section to the wall, gets diverted into the pipe coming from the other half of the sink at the top of the trap.

At this point, I’m not prepared to lower the pipe coming out of the wall, it would require extensive under sink work, and I’m not even sure how accessible it would be if I ripped the wall out. I was thinking a separate second trap might be a possible solution to avoid this backup. Thanks for the help! I’ll report back.

 

[old mac]

Thanks for this input. This is what I think currently happens, the water fills the trap and food coming out of the garbage disposal, instead of all of it going into the trap and out the horizontal section to the wall, gets diverted into the pipe coming from the other half of the sink at the top of the trap.

At this point, I’m not prepared to lower the pipe coming out of the wall, it would require extensive under sink work, and I’m not even sure how accessible it would be if I ripped the wall out. I was thinking a separate second trap might be a possible solution to avoid this backup. Thanks for the help! I’ll report back.

If you do have to tear into the wall, remember the connection coming out the wall most likely isn't an elbow going down, but a T fitting for the vent pipe going through the roof.

 

[Huntn]

If you do have to tear into the wall, remember the connection coming out the wall most likely isn't an elbow going down, but a T fitting for the vent pipe going through the roof.

Directly above the sink is a large window, so I’m thinking not, but I’ll look outside. Plan A after the holidays is try a new drain configuration leaving the wall alone. I don’t currently have the motivation to rip out the wall.

 

[jeyf]

... I don’t currently have the motivation to rip out the wall.

do what you want but
-few scraps of drywall and some 5 minute plaster and it almost (not) repairs it self.
-replace an existing vent pipe (if any) with an Air Admittance Valve

 

[Huntn]

do what you want but
-few scraps of drywall and some 5 minute plaster and it almost (not) repairs it self.
-replace an existing vent pipe (if any) with an Air Admittance Valve

Actually it’s cut out the back of the cabinet, then drywall. I’m going to try the easy way first.

 

[MultiM]

I’m not an expert by any stretch, but it looks to me as if you need to put in another trap and have it drain at a 45degree out the back, after the drain from the disposal.plumbing is not my forte though...

On another note, my wife and I did some cosmetics to the house this summmer. New garage doors with openers, front bow window, front door and new sliding doors to back deck. Can’t tell you what a huge difference it makes on the curb appeal. We also had a new driveway put in and a rubber surface installed over the crappy concrete stairs.

This just the front door. We went from green to brown.
[doublepost=1514817448][/doublepost]These are the garage doors....

 

[Huntn]

I’m not an expert by any stretch, but it looks to me as if you need to put in another trap and have it drain at a 45degree out the back, after the drain from the disposal.plumbing is not my forte though...

On another note, my wife and I did some cosmetics to the house this summmer. New garage doors with openers, front bow window, front door and new sliding doors to back deck. Can’t tell you what a huge difference it makes on the curb appeal. We also had a new driveway put in and a rubber surface installed over the crappy concrete stairs.

This just the front door. We went from green to brown.
[doublepost=1514817448][/doublepost]These are the garage doors....

What was what was the hardest aspect of doing the garage doors, that is if you hung them yourself?

 

[MultiM]

What was what was the hardest aspect of doing the garage doors, that is if you hung them yourself?

The hardest part was writing the cheque. I didn’t do it myself. Beyond my skill or experience level. There is a beam that runs across ceiling so we had to have a wall mounted door opener for one door, and a standard ceiling mount for the other one. Th e fit was tight, but they were pro’s. very happy with the end result.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The hardest part was writing the cheque. I didn’t do it myself. Beyond my skill or experience level. There is a beam that runs across ceiling so we had to have a wall mounted door opener for one door, and a standard ceiling mount for the other one. Th e fit was tight, but they were pro’s. very happy with the end result.

I had a quote for getting ours done a few weeks ago.
Will book it this week.

 

[rhett7660]

I actually hung a garage door, by myself once. I have helped on quite a few and a few of them were pretty tricky, as in having dual tracks because the door was taller than the opening. The other two I had installed, I paid someone to do it. While it is pretty straight forward, if you don't do it everyday or have done it before, it can be challenging.

Installing a garage door opener is pretty easy. The secret to that is using a rope to hold up one end of the device while you bolt down the other side. Once I was shown that little trick, never paid someone to install my garage door opener again. Now granted I have only had to install a few of them.

Our newest project is going to be a master bath remodel and also re-doing our stair case. Right now our stair case is one of those you would see in a late 80's early 90's house that is sold all the way up. We are going to be tearing that down, filling in the base and having a cast iron rail installed that will be matching our front entry door. Going to give our entry a whole new look. Of course this will be done over a period of time given how expensive railings are!

 

[Huntn]

Regarding redoing the plumbing under my kitchen sink, got some parts today. I'll have to get under there tomorrow and start experimenting with what works, with a probable trip back to the Lowes or hardware store.

I actually hung a garage door, by myself once. I have helped on quite a few and a few of them were pretty tricky, as in having dual tracks because the door was taller than the opening. The other two I had installed, I paid someone to do it. While it is pretty straight forward, if you don't do it everyday or have done it before, it can be challenging.

Installing a garage door opener is pretty easy. The secret to that is using a rope to hold up one end of the device while you bolt down the other side. Once I was shown that little trick, never paid someone to install my garage door opener again. Now granted I have only had to install a few of them.

Our newest project is going to be a master bath remodel and also re-doing our stair case. Right now our stair case is one of those you would see in a late 80's early 90's house that is sold all the way up. We are going to be tearing that down, filling in the base and having a cast iron rail installed that will be matching our front entry door. Going to give our entry a whole new look. Of course this will be done over a period of time given how expensive railings are!

My wife just mentioned a bathroom remodel, that I would basically do, although some of it would be subbed out, and... she wants to take it down to the studs.

 

[jeyf]

... and a rubber surface installed over the crappy concrete stairs...

can you post where how you bought the rubber stair surface?

 

[millerj123]

My wife just mentioned a bathroom remodel, that I would basically do, although some of it would be subbed out, and... she wants to take it down to the studs.

Depending on the age of the bathroom, that might be the easiest way to go. I’ve rehabbed 7 bathrooms so far, including plumbing, toilets, sinks, tile grout, etc. in a lot of ways, going back to studs means everything is clean for a while.

In my current 20+ year old home, we rehabbed the master bath, but the shower is permanently stained, and no amount of scrubbing improves the look.

 

[velocityg4]

Regarding redoing the plumbing under my kitchen sink, got some parts today. I'll have to get under there tomorrow and start experimenting with what works, with a probable trip back to the Lowes or hardware store.

If you haven't done it yet. This is what I did to cure my drain woes. One trap for each side and then straight out the back like you are planning.

I also put hair salon style traps in the bathrooms. They have a large filter for debris and unscrew easily for cleaning.

My wife just mentioned a bathroom remodel, that I would basically do, although some of it would be subbed out, and... she wants to take it down to the studs.

That's a project that will take a lot longer than it sounds like and cost a lot more than you think. Getting down to studs might even speed it up. As you have full access to the walls for plumbing and electrical and don't have to try to patch holes. If you sub anything have someone do the mudding and sanding of the drywall and laying the tile. At least to me those are the two most physically demanding and time consuming parts for someone who doesn't do it all the time but a pro can knock out in no time.

Instead of the fancy shower. Get one of those fancy Toto toilets. With the heated seat, control panel, automatic lid, lights, air filter, self cleaning/flushing, washes and dries you.

 

[0388631]

That's precisely why I prefer single story sprawling homes. There's less headache is something goes wrong. Split level isn't bad either assuming the split is minimal.

My wife just mentioned a bathroom remodel, that I would basically do, although some of it would be subbed out, and... she wants to take it down to the studs.

Sounds fun!


Want me to pray for you?

 

[Huntn]

If you haven't done it yet. This is what I did to cure my drain woes. One trap for each side and then straight out the back like you are planning.

I also put hair salon style traps in the bathrooms. They have a large filter for debris and unscrew easily for cleaning.



That's a project that will take a lot longer than it sounds like and cost a lot more than you think. Getting down to studs might even speed it up. As you have full access to the walls for plumbing and electrical and don't have to try to patch holes. If you sub anything have someone do the mudding and sanding of the drywall and laying the tile. At least to me those are the two most physically demanding and time consuming parts for someone who doesn't do it all the time but a pro can knock out in no time.

Instead of the fancy shower. Get one of those fancy Toto toilets. With the heated seat, control panel, automatic lid, lights, air filter, self cleaning/flushing, washes and dries you.

Regarding the kitchen sink, I am doing dual traps with 1 1/2” pvc pipe. I was thinking that there would be a split pipe fitting like a Y, to join them together to drain out, but what I found at the store was a T which I think I can make that work.


Regarding sink traps in my bathroom, unbelievably, the original builder put pvc, cemented together traps in both of my bathrooms. Eventually, I’ll cut them out and and replace them with screw together pieces. The hair salon trap sounds interesting. I wonder where they can be bought?

Already learned my lesson with muddling dry wall. That will be subbed out.
[doublepost=1515077839][/doublepost]

That's precisely why I prefer single story sprawling homes. There's less headache is something goes wrong. Split level isn't bad either assuming the split is minimal.


Sounds fun!


Want me to pray for you?

The biggest single challenge will be to go from a built in water jet tub, to a free standing tub which my wife wants. I’ve done plumbing, I’ve jack hammered floors to move drains in the floor, but as a senior citizen, I may need to call on a plumber for assistance, depending on what I find when the tub is pulled out.

One of the unknowns is changes in the configuration of the drain from the present tub to the new tub and the hot and cold water. The water currently comes up about 3feet from the wall, with a free standing tub, this would have to be adjusted, I imagine below the floor level, which is a concrete floor.

 

[D.T.]

We've got substantial plans this year, I'll update as the fun progresses (kind of need to make it out of January before we start wrecking the place).

 

[rhett7660]

Regarding redoing the plumbing under my kitchen sink, got some parts today. I'll have to get under there tomorrow and start experimenting with what works, with a probable trip back to the Lowes or hardware store.


My wife just mentioned a bathroom remodel, that I would basically do, although some of it would be subbed out, and... she wants to take it down to the studs.

As in moving a wall or load barring wall? Eeeeeek!

Oh we will be doing it ourselves for the most part, with the exception of moving some of the plumbing for the new tub and the tile for the shower since it goes all the way up the wall and there are some tricky cuts in it. Other than that, all the flooring, cabinets, painting, and installation of fixtures will be done by us.

 

[velocityg4]

Regarding the kitchen sink, I am doing dual traps with 1 1/2” pvc pipe. I was thinking that there would be a split pipe fitting like a Y, to join them together to drain out, but what I found at the store was a T which I think I can make that work.


Regarding sink traps in my bathroom, unbelievably, the original builder put pvc, cemented together traps in both of my bathrooms. Eventually, I’ll cut them out and and replace them with screw together pieces. The hair salon trap sounds interesting. I wonder where they can be bought?

Already learned my lesson with muddling dry wall. That will be subbed out.

Yea, I used the T-fitting for the dual traps too.

This is what I used for the salon hair trap. It goes on 1 1/2" pipe so you may need to use an adapter for 1 1/4. Which is just a thicker compression ring/gasket.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JKU9VEC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I learned the mudding lesson too when I moved some walls turning a useless dining room into a closet, pantry, small dining room and alcove. Same with tiling my kitchen. Had a pro tile a kitchen at my old house I was remodeling prior to sale. He worked by himself about four times faster than I did on the new house with help.

 

[Huntn]

As in moving a wall or load barring wall? Eeeeeek!

Oh we will be doing it ourselves for the most part, with the exception of moving some of the plumbing for the new tub and the tile for the shower since it goes all the way up the wall and there are some tricky cuts in it. Other than that, all the flooring, cabinets, painting, and installation of fixtures will be done by us.

Just taking it down to the studs to see if anything undesirable is going on behind.
[doublepost=1515090267][/doublepost]

Yea, I used the T-fitting for the dual traps too.

This is what I used for the salon hair trap. It goes on 1 1/2" pipe so you may need to use an adapter for 1 1/4. Which is just a thicker compression ring/gasket.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JKU9VEC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I learned the mudding lesson too when I moved some walls turning a useless dining room into a closet, pantry, small dining room and alcove. Same with tiling my kitchen. Had a pro tile a kitchen at my old house I was remodeling prior to sale. He worked by himself about four times faster than I did on the new house with help.

Thanks for the hair trap link. I can tile, but muddling walls is too much work.

 

[Huntn]

Problem with my kitchen sink drainage.
Before I renovated my kitchen, I had a normal surface mount sink. I replaced it with a double deep farm style sink. It projects significantly lower into the cabinet, and what I notice is the over time the drain gets clogged, mostly the branch of the pipe that drains the adjoining sink, not the one where the garbage disposal is located.

It was not problem with the old sink and here is what I think is going on. The clearance from the drain of the garbage disposal is 12” above the bottom of the cabinet. The height of the drain coming out the wall in the back of the cabinet is 10” above the bottom of the cabinet, so there is only a 2” difference in height for drain action through the trap. Therefore, I think the hydraulic action of water draining, by virtue of a only 2” difference in height, makes this action weak. There are two sinks draining into one trap, and those are designed so there are some constructions which makes it easier for food to get caught...however the food has to be blow back from the garbage disposal. The other sink has a dish drainer in it, where handwashed dishes get placed to drip dry. In addition, the drain traverses out of the back of the cabinet (coming forward) 8” level before starting down to connect to the trap that connects both sinks.

• Possible solution, start the drain that comes out of the back wall (currently 8" level), down sooner.
• I can lower the trap about 4 inches, but the differential between the disposal drain, and the height of the drain going into the wall will remain the same.
• I’m not sure if 2 traps would be better, one for each sink would work with a single drain out.
• Look for a shorter garbage disposal, but the disposal part above the motor is 6" tall. Overall shorter I don't think this would help me if the drain height remains 6" below the bottom of the sink.

So, I’m soliticiting opinions on how to minimize these clogs. So far, I’ve had to take the drain apart 4 times to clean it out. Thanks in advance for the anticipated help!!

Same style, but not the sink in my kitchen...

View attachment 741384
​

Ok, I think i'm done with my redo of my kitchen sink plumbing. It only took 4 trips to the store.

If you have a plumbing supply place close by, be sure to compare prices. I went in there this morning out of desperation as none of my usual stores (Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hardware) had what I needed. The prices at the plumbing supply place for similar parts were 1/3 of what they were at the previous three I mentioned. The attraction to the big box stores, is that you can walk in browse the shelves and pick what you need, if you can find it. At the Supply House, there is a counter and you have to stand in line, describe what you want, and wait for the guy to go in the back and fetch it, but at 1/3 the price, I should of done this first.

​

From the photo, it looks like things are crooked, but the only pipe that is slanted slightly is the cross piece that goes from one sink over to the drain pipe, behind the dish washer drain. The drain goes straight out the back of the cabinet. The T that comes out the back has a baffle to keep the two drains from backing up into each other. I tested the new layout for about 5 minutes to check for leaks. I think I'm good to go and hope I won't have the same issue with one of these pipes clogging up with food debris.

 

[rhett7660]

Ok, I think i'm done with my redo of my kitchen sink plumbing. It only took 4 trips to the store.

If you have a plumbing supply place close by, be sure to compare prices. I went in there this morning out of desperation as none of my usual stores (Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hardware) had what I needed. The prices at the plumbing supply place for similar parts were 1/3 of what they were at the previous three I mentioned. The attraction to the big box stores, is that you can walk in browse the shelves and pick what you need, if you can find it. At the Supply House, there is a counter and you have to stand in line, describe what you want, and wait for the guy to go in the back and fetch it, but at 1/3 the price, I should of done this first.

View attachment 745405
​

From the photo, it looks like things are crooked, but the only pipe that is slanted slightly is the cross piece that goes from one sink over to the drain pipe, behind the dish washer drain. The drain goes straight out the back of the cabinet. The T that comes out the back has a baffle to keep the two drains from backing up into each other. I tested the new layout for about 5 minutes to check for leaks. I think I'm good to go and hope I won't have the same issue with one of these pipes clogging up with food debris.

I hate dealing with plumbing. I seem to always have them tightened too tight, or not enough. Ugh! Nice job. One thing I will be doing from now on and I wish I did it before, was put down one of the metal tray's that covers the entire wood bottom of the cabinet and also has flanges that go up the sides of the cabinet. This is in case there is a leak it doesn't destroy or damage your cabinet base or baseboards.

We went cabinet shopping this weekend, getting ready to do the kitchen and master bath, and these little plates would have saved us quite a bit in repairs if we had them. Going to be using them on everything that deals with water and cabinets from now on lol.

Nicely done by the way! Looks good.

 

[Huntn]

I hate dealing with plumbing. I seem to always have them tightened too tight, or not enough. Ugh! Nice job. One thing I will be doing from now on and I wish I did it before, was put down one of the metal tray's that covers the entire wood bottom of the cabinet and also has flanges that go up the sides of the cabinet. This is in case there is a leak it doesn't destroy or damage your cabinet base or baseboards.

We went cabinet shopping this weekend, getting ready to do the kitchen and master bath, and these little plates would have saved us quite a bit in repairs if we had them. Going to be using them on everything that deals with water and cabinets from now on lol.

Nicely done by the way! Looks good.

Thanks!

I’m going to recommend Direct Buy (https://www.directbuy.com/) to you or anyone who is about to start a house project if you have one close to you, with the caveat that I don’t know what the new member fee is. See: http://www.hfndigital.com/housewares/directbuy-shifts-subscription-based-memberships/

About 4 years ago, we remodeled out kitchen. I payed a $5000 fee to join, and we saved well more than that in our project. But you had to spend money to save money. Since then Direct Buy reorganized, closed their US franchise locations and have reopened some of them as company stores. They gave us a free renewal membership which is about $300 a year. This maybe different than a new membership.

I am getting ready to start a master bathroom project. We spent several hours there (DB) today, and their quote for cabinets was very positive. We have an appointment tomorrow at Lowe’s and I’ll post how much the comparison quote is.

What got my attention today is that the $2500 American Standard freestanding tub my wife wants is $1300 at DB! Compared to MSRP, we checked several items, toilet, sinks, etc and everything was running about 1/2 off retail. This is compared to close to, if not MSRP at Lowe’s when my wife checked tub prices there.