It's times like these where the fountain of youth would come in handy. It might happen in our lifetimes , though. I'll let you know after I win the lottery.
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The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming
- Thread starter GabrieleR
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It's times like these where the fountain of youth would come in handy. It might happen in our lifetimes , though. I'll let you know after I win the lottery.
I'll answer this from my perspective. Context first... I'm not really a gamer. However, I have a few pet games that I wanna be able to run on my next machine. I want it to be cheap and compact because I don't have a gaming den and already have arguments with my wife about over-cluttering our study with tech gear. So why would I want a Hades Canyon in a Mac?
1. eGPUs are super expensive and add an extra box to the setup, so you're losing on sheer price and bulk as soon as you buy one (if they were like $50... as I reckon they should be... then maybe I'd consider them).
2. In what parallel world is having the best mobile CPU/GPU combo available a disadvantage? I note you call it a 'leftover Frankenstein' setup in a completely Pejorative way. I don't have the same hangups about it. I just want something that's fast!
3. Once you've added multiple eGPUs to a Mac Mini, the price creeps up towards that of a Mac Pro (which fits my all-in-one requirement and is by far the fastest option, but it's a tiny bit pricey).
Right now I'm killing myself trying to decide whether I should dump Apple and buy a Hades Canyon (because Apple's only solution for me is very expensive). The only thing holding me back is that I like MacOS and have used it for ~30 years and really don't wanna dump the operating system.
Thus... keeping my current Mac Mini (which is about as good as the current model Mac Minis for gaming despite being almost a decade old... except doesn't have Thunderbolt) and buying a Hades Canyon for my limited gaming needs is a winner I think. Mac with multiple eGPUs? Naaaaah. Mac that has the Hades Canyon's GPU? YES PLEASE!!!
Everyone's use case is different, but the Mac mini has clearly evolved past the Windows switcher context it was first marketed as and into a much narrower segment. While allowing for more widespread usage, it is not without compromises. As I have stated in many of my other posts, I cannot give Apple a pass on the lack of updates in the intervening four (4) years, as it is inexcusable. I understand why they did it, but it doesn't make it right.
That being said, let me retort.
- eGPUs are not super-expensive. They aren't cheap, but they are what you make them. You can buy a Sonnet eGPU Puck 560 for $399. It's a solution, ideal for some, but not for most. You can buy a Sonnet eGFX Breakaway Box 550 w/ a Sapphire PULSE Radeon RX580 for $479.00. I bought the Asus XG Station Pro w/ a Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX580 for $519.00. An eGPU box, correctly configured for future usage, is a one-time purchase. You reckon it should be $50? Well, then you haven't really examined what goes into the as it the manufacturer considerably more than $50 to create, as it consists of the case, the PSU, the PCIe slot riser card, the case fans and the Thunderbolt 3 cable. To that end, you're being unrealistic about the cost.
- Yes, I called it a Frankenstein solution and, yes, in a completely pejorative way...and I meant that 100%. It's four (4) Kaby Lake cores, hardly state of the art now, but not crap either, and a Vega M. The fact that Intel gets away with marketing it as an 8th Gen CPU is a completely different conversation. It will never gain traction with more than a tiny handful of PC OEMs as they almost alway opt for a cheaper CPU/NVIDIA solution. To be honest, they really aren't even trying to address the same market as the mini or the Intel NUC as they simply puke out another mini-tower PC and call it a day. Where they do address the market, they do it with Intel 15w and 28w TDP U-Series CPUs. Thus, Kaby Lake-G is going to be an orphan way sooner than it should as Intel will eventually kill the solution off once they get Xe GPUs out in the market. That, and the relatively high cost, low core count (six- and eight-cores are now the standard with 10-core consumer desktops coming in Q2/2020) of the CPU don't help it out.
- A nicely specced Mac mini (Core i7/8GB DRAM/1TB SSD/10GbE) is $1,799 retail from Apple. Replace the DRAM with 32GB of third party DRAM and you are at less than $2,000. Add an RX580 solution, you're at $2500. Add another one and you're at $3,000, which is half the price of the base 2019 Mac Pro. If you need a Mac Pro, then we shouldn't be having this conversation.
If you opt for a Hades Canyon, good luck, you'll need it! Make sure to find a third party case for it and get it out of that tiny chassis before it melts down.
Yup, all 100% real, and not even the slightest bit cynical in suggesting I hold off until 2035 to replace my 2009 Mac Mini.
My point was that the previous generation Mac Mini was on display at most retailers around where I am at and places I have traveled to.... presumably they found it worthwhile because there was demand for it as a consumer level computer.... the least powerful Mac, with a reasonable amount of storage (HDD, SSD & Fusion options). I know several people with Mac Mini's of various vintages..... And sooner or later, like me, they would be looking to replace them with something more modern but functionally equivalent.
The current 2018 Mac Mini did go on display for a while at some stores, but I have not seen it at any of late. I can only guess that while the performance and some specs have found favour among pundits and maybe some pros, it has failed to generate much interest among Joe and Jill Average consumers. To generate more interest amongst consumers an off the shop shelf needs to have more on board storage, and be more attractively priced.
Who decides to buy a computer by seeing it in store? Isn’t it more that the world has moved on and bricks and mortar stores are on the decline.
When the last mini was released I bet the % of shop sales versus online sales was higher than today.
Nobody buys a mini because it looks nice.
However fashion items like Apple Watch etc are much more likely to be seen and handled in store.
Hopefully, we can replace both the memory and hard drives ourselves just like in the good old days!
Now I see what you’re talking about. Unfortunately, you misread my comment. What I said was “in a couple of years [2021] you’ll be able to get a good deal on a used 2018 to replace your 2009 mini. That should hold you until at least 2030, maybe even 2035.”
I figured if your 2009 can last 10 years, a 2018 could very well last 9-14 years—just by upgrading from 32GB to 64GB at the 10-year mark. I get that computers last 10+ years, but I never suggested your requirements were so basic that your 2009 could last 26 years! (Though I get why you’d find that insulting.)
We’re really not in disagreement on this point. What I said was that Apple has re-targeted the mini away from the switcher/consumer/home market, instead pivoting to business/corp/pro, as evidenced by their marketing copy and product positioning on the Apple mini's website pages, and things like 6C/12T CPUs, 64GB RAM and 10GbE options. Those are not meant for home users. That’s just a fact. That’s what you’re saying, too: the 2018 mini isn’t attractive to home users, due to price, small boot drives (perfect for the datacenter and businesses that rely on file servers), unnecessarily powerful CPUs (particularly for entry-level).
You’ll notice I never said that Apple should have abandoned lower priced minis, or that it was my preference. You may remember all the heat I took earlier last year defending a 4GB RAM option and a non-SSD option against the “4GB is useless and insulting”, “spinners and Fusion drives are obsolete” posters who swarmed in to shout me down.
I also made the rather prophetic prediction that if they got their wish—that Apple would drop 4GB and upgrade to all-SSD—that we’d be looking at a $799 base mini, not a $499 8GB/128GB SSD base, which is what those posters wanted. (And who doesn’t? But Apple’s not in business to lose money, so their idea of a inexpensive, higher specced mini was just a fantasy.)
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/25945559/
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/25951525/
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/25955703/
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Fair point about the iMac. I'd have to do the numbers on the Radeon Pro 560X but it's a true all-in-one unit that I could upgrade to have an eGPU in say 3 years time (when prices have possibly settled down a bit).
I disagree with you on the Hades Canyon... I think it's kinda what the Mac Mini should be in terms of stats and upgradability. However, I think you've won me over on the iMac idea. Just need to do some numbers on the Radeon Pro 560X to make sure it's a good candidate for what I'm trying to achieve.
As much as apple has been only really supporting AMD GPU's, I'm a bit surprised they don't just flip over to their CPU's as well. Having a decent AMD APU in a MacMini sounds a lot more appealing than just an Intel chip w/ barely any graphics capability besides driving a display.
AMD does not have a complete CPU portfolio to cover all of Apple’s needs, nor will AMD have a complete portfolio as they lack the capital to expend chasing every market that Intel currently sells into. AMD has been very successful in the markets that they have chased (Gaming, HPC, HEDT), but their mobile footprint is nothing compared to Intel, which makes them a complete non-starter for Apple as that is their volume sellers (MacBook Air, MacBook Pro).
I had to rescue this thread from page three! Anyway, we're now a year since the 2018 Mini was released yet no sign of a 2019 Mini. Is that game over for us?
Once every two years for a mini release, at least.
Why you expect all the sudden they’d come out with a (low selling) mini every year all the sudden is beyond me.
If you get a new mini in late 2020 consider that awesome.
what is game over ? 2018 allready a relieve compare solder ram 2014. Unless apple is top world supplier then hope every month changed.
There will be another overpriced crap Mini released in 2022.
What is needed is a proper desktop for the masses and Apple refuses to manufacture such a computer.
hehe. first time buy apple mac mini.. though it is work like linux... seem 4gb is horrible as super slow platter. then moved to imac. Proper haish
I don't mind paying 719 for a 128gb nvme m.2 8gb ram model. Note I get veteran discount. I do mind the soldered ssd. I wanted a stand alone model with 1tb or 2tb storage. That costs me Either 1259 for 1 tb ssd with 8gb ram or 1619 with 2tb ssd and 8gb ram. I would have preferred paying 719 pulling the nvme ssd and dropping in a 1tb ssd for about 150 which brings me to 869 add a 8gb stick of ram for 61 total 930 and I am good to go for 5-7 years. I think I will end up getting a mac pro in 2020
Methinks it might be..... As I have suggested before, although the 1918 Mac Mini was feted by reviewers, pros and wannabes......
......it is not appropriately specced and over-priced for the average Joe or Jill Consumer, many of whom are after a reasonably priced small desktop Mac with adequate performance for simple needs, and a decent amount of on-board storage. From my point of view, I like the occasional transportability of the Mini, which can be hooked up to a monitor and peripherals of my choice.
The previous generation, the 2014 Mac Mini, was in need of updates to keep up with the times, but not a total revamp to appeal to a totally different market.
Around where I am at the 2018 Mac Mini did appear in some stores, but it did not stay around for long. The previous generation continued to be offered and on display for several months, but I guess disappeared after stocks sold out.
On an out of province sojourn, that included some larger cities several months ago, I did not see a mac Mini on display anywhere. Same was true on a trip to a neighbouring country last week.
I, for one, decide to buy almost everything after seeing it, and handling it in a store. So, I guess, do many other consumers.
When computers are on display they are switched. Potential customers can have a play around on them, and talk to a shop assistant before deciding to buy. Somewhat unusually these days, I have found staff in Apple stores, or agents are quite well informed about their products.
Unless there is a rethink in the marketing, and with that the pricing and specs of the Mac Mini, I think its days as a consumer product are numbered. Pros seeking grunt will likely find other computers in the Mac line-up to be more appropriate for their needs.
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Once every 4 years is being very optimistic.
There is zero chance of a new Mac Mini in 2020.
I'd expect Apple to give the mini a new CPU as soon as Intel releases something on 10nm with 11th gen graphics and that fits the power envelope of the mini. Until then there really isn't anything to upgrade to.
The (Semi-)Pro's probably prefer Intel for various reasons, especially as bigger software packages might need adjustments for an AMD CPU, which the software maker can't justify due to the comparatively small target user group of the Mac (compared to Windows).
For home users with lesser performance needs, I expect Apple to move to an Ax-chip based Mac (instead of going AMD) in the not-too-distant future. Performance-wise the Ax chips are now close, if not on par with current mainstream CPU's. And the GPU's on these chips should be well able to drive even 5k screens with ease.
With the price hike of the current mini, Apple made room for a Mac below the current mini. In these times, where even a Raspberry Pi can serve as no-frills computer for simple things like browsing and office work, there is no reason why Apple couldn't revive the 499 price spot of the early mini, without having to give up on their DNA.
Apple manages to sell Apple TV's for significantly less than this price spot, so a Mac smaller than the mini should be easily possible. Heck - just slap some more ports on an AppleTV, release the (with 99,99% probability) existing macOS on Ax chips and you're good to go. Perhaps even for 399 ...
If Apple does stay with x86, wouldn't the real reason for them to switch to AMD be that AMD is willing to build custom SKUs like they have shown to do for Sony and Microsoft consoles?
What could Apple gain from that? They wouldn't need the integrated GPU's, as the current Intel offerings are mostly sufficient for the target groups (the UHD 630 GPU in the current mini not withstanding). Migrating to AMD would require quite some changes to the OS and intensive testing, which might simply not be worth it to Apple. Customized SKU's also come with a higher price, of course, eating away at Apple's margins and - perhaps - negating any potential cost savings to be gained from switching suppliers of a main component.
Also, the leading platform for the minis are Notebooks, where you would not want the additional power draw of more powerful GPU's integrated in the package. And for serious gaming you'd rather want an external GPU anyway.
If Apple sees a need for more customised chips, they currently seem to prefer to have everything in-house, rather than paying a ton of extra money to an external contractor.
Summarized that's why I expect them to stay Intel on the high end (compatibility for the Semi /Pro segment) and go Ax rather than AMD on lower tiers.
I'm not saying Apple is going to, or should, switch to AMD from Intel, I'm saying that IMHO custom SKUs would be a more important reason for them to do so compared to better graphics performance given that, as you rightly say, graphics performance is mostly "good enough" for the Mac mini on current Intel processors. AMD is more likely than Intel to do whatever Apple wants regarding core count, cache, frequency, TDP and perhaps more importantly packaging within what is technically possible. I agree that's probably still not enough for them to make the change.
I do like the 2018 model...but I do rather wish they had doubled the size of the case, and put in a larger cooler so that it can accommodate 95W TDP chips (without throttling), and a spare m2 slot. That would have been superb.