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giggles

macrumors 65816
Dec 15, 2012
1,024
1,238
What I want more than a new MacMini (2018 is still fine imho) is a silent Blackmagic eGPU based on Navi (W5700X)...can’t really bring myself to spending that much money on the old Polaris and Vega ones...and every other eGPU is noisier and cannot drive a thunderbolt-only display...
I write it here because for many this is part of what constitutes an “enthusiast”-grade Mini..
 

satchmo

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2008
4,993
5,643
Canada
What I want more than a new MacMini (2018 is still fine imho) is a silent Blackmagic eGPU based on Navi (W5700X)...can’t really bring myself to spending that much money on the old Polaris and Vega ones...and every other eGPU is noisier and cannot drive a thunderbolt-only display...
I write it here because for many this is part of what constitutes an “enthusiast”-grade Mini..

I’m not familiar with GPU’s but found this rather interesting kickstarter product. Don’t know if it’s any good but it doesn’t look like it’s going to get funded.

 

jinnyman

macrumors 6502a
Sep 2, 2011
761
671
Lincolnshire, IL
The reason why I really can't trust Apple anymore. They don't care about updating Mac mini. Will they ever update Mini or iMac Pro even? or will they be another MP 6,1 or Mini '14?

We never will know until Apple finally come up with either a new model or discontinue.
 

Micky Do

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2012
2,205
3,146
a South Pacific island
What I want more than a new MacMini (2018 is still fine imho) is a silent Blackmagic eGPU based on Navi (W5700X)...can’t really bring myself to spending that much money on the old Polaris and Vega ones...and every other eGPU is noisier and cannot drive a thunderbolt-only display...
I write it here because for many this is part of what constitutes an “enthusiast”-grade Mini..
The "enthusiast" grade 2018 Mac Mini is all fine and dandy for the pro and dilettante niche. However, Apple almost certainly needs to offer something more appropriately specced (modest, but adequate performance, with more on board storage) and be more attractively priced to rekindle average Joe or Jill's enthusiasm.
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
I've been of the opinion that the CPU lanes are reserved for Thunderbolt ports for best performance. This is why the Mac mini can have 4 Thunderbolt ports - all 16 lanes coming from the CPU.
The mini uses two JHL7540 dual-port Thunderbolt 3 controller chips. Each controller chip is connected to 4 CPU PCIe lanes, which are shared by a pair of TB3 ports, but each port doesn’t have 4 dedicated lanes. The lanes are bidirectional, so you could theoretically support 40Gbps upstream and 40Gbps downstream simultaneously.

If you are using two 5K displays, one must attach to a port on the left side and the other must attach to the right side. Both can’t be connected to the same side.

Another 4 CPU PCIe connect to the optional 10 GbE iirc. Both of the USB 3.0 ports, the gigabit Ethernet and the WiFi connect to the PCH. Maybe the T2 connects to the CPU PCIe lanes as well, can’t remember.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,612
6,907
However, Apple almost certainly needs to offer something more appropriately specced (modest, but adequate performance, with more on board storage) and be more attractively priced to rekindle average Joe or Jill's enthusiasm.

Yes.

I'm a huge Mac Pro and Mac Mini fan. Not any more. Apple's prices on the latest Pro and Mini have pushed me into PC land.
 

reallynotnick

macrumors 65816
Oct 21, 2005
1,249
1,193
Man that new AMD 4800H would sure be amazing in a new Mac Mini. Still seems like a slim chance Apple would actually release it, but with the way Intel has been going on the integrated graphics side it does seem like it could be possible. Just depends on if Apple wants to do something crazy like move to custom ARM processors.
 

Krevnik

macrumors 601
Sep 8, 2003
4,100
1,309
The 4800H would also be one of the few 45W chips that would be a true upgrade from the 8700 if AMD’s marketing is true.
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
Yes.

I'm a huge Mac Pro and Mac Mini fan. Not any more. Apple's prices on the latest Pro and Mini have pushed me into PC land.
Were you able to find a better Xeon workstation than the Mac Pro? Were you able to find a better mini PC than the Mac mini? They’d have to be pretty good for me to give up MacOS.

Particularly with the mini, the alternatives I’ve seen are less than attractive.

PS The 8GB/128GB Mac mini only increased $50 from the previous model, and it’s a much better machine imo. Were you expecting no price increase at all? A price cut?
 

Micky Do

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2012
2,205
3,146
a South Pacific island
Were you able to find a better Xeon workstation than the Mac Pro? Were you able to find a better mini PC than the Mac mini? They’d have to be pretty good for me to give up MacOS.

Particularly with the mini, the alternatives I’ve seen are less than attractive.

PS The 8GB/128GB Mac mini only increased $50 from the previous model, and it’s a much better machine imo. Were you expecting no price increase at all? A price cut?
What do you mean by a better machine......?

What is good for some people is not so good for others.

The current 2018 Mac Mini is good for pro users, and those who value high performance. However as a practical machine for most of my humble needs it is no better than my 2009 Mac Mini, which came with a 120 GB HDD (which is still running after more than 10 years). It would be nice to have a newer machine with a more recent version of MacOS, which has some useful features that would pair nicely with the MacBook Air I acquired to use for work 18 months ago. Air Drop, for one.......

But better storage and a more attractive price would be needed to make a new Mac Mini attractive to me.

I like MacOS, and have no inclination to change to Windows or anything else.
 
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rambo47

macrumors 65816
Oct 3, 2010
1,354
973
Denville, NJ
What do you mean by a better machine......?

What is good for some people is not so good for others.

The current 2018 Mac Mini is good for pro users, and those who value high performance. However as a practical machine for most of my humble needs it is no better than my 2009 Mac Mini, which came with a 120 GB HDD (which is still running after more than 10 years). It would be nice to have a newer machine with a more recent version of MacOS, which has some useful features that would pair nicely with the MacBook Air I acquired to use for work 18 months ago. Air Drop, for one.......

But better storage and a more attractive price would be needed to make a new Mac Mini attractive to me.

I like MacOS, and have no inclination to change to Windows or anything else.
Me too. I use a windows pc at work and I have a Lenovo laptop at home to interface with work. But I'm not a windows fan at all and use my Macs when I'm home. I have an iMac for most stuff and a MacBook Air for mobility. MacOS works the way I do so that's my choice. Tried Linux on the Lenovo and tried to like it. Nope, not for me. It still seems like the primary function of Linux is to develop Linux. You need a higher level of proficiency with Linux to truly get things done. Current versions of Windows 10 are ok, but the MacOS still shines brightest for me. My Mac Mini is currently dedicated to crunching SETI data, running headless in a corner of the living room until I find another use for it.

One thing I love about Macs is how well they integrate with other Macs. Once I got an iPhone and put away my beloved BlackBerry(s) it all fell into place for me.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,612
6,907
Were you able to find a better Xeon workstation than the Mac Pro? Were you able to find a better mini PC than the Mac mini? They’d have to be pretty good for me to give up MacOS.

Particularly with the mini, the alternatives I’ve seen are less than attractive.

PS The 8GB/128GB Mac mini only increased $50 from the previous model, and it’s a much better machine imo. Were you expecting no price increase at all? A price cut?

No, I don't have a better workstation than the Mac Pro. But I also don't have a $6000 budget, so I had to move on. If you have the budget and work well in MacOS I'd stay there.

As for the Mini, you are correct. The alternatives are not attractive. I haven't switched--still use the Mini and it still does the job as a secondary computer. I think the closest PC to compete with the Mini in both price and specs would be the Lenovo ThinkCentre Tiny lineup, but certainly it is not a compelling enough computer to switch if your preference MacOS.

Mine is a 2012 Mac Mini, so it's not a $50 price increase to me, it's more like $200. It's just reality that $600 was always a stretch for me with my previous minis, and $800 is no longer worth it. I might actually buy a used 2018 Mini some day when the prices fall enough.
 
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sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,069
1,405
Take a look at the intel Ghost Canyon NUC. Two years of upgrades on the road map.

Given what happened to the Kaby Lake G based previous NUC and lack of Apple interest there I'd not hold out much hope but looking at that configuration I'd say that a more cubic shape would have allowed a bigger cooling fan for quieter airflow.

And we all know Apple has previous for a cubic shape :)
 
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Micky Do

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2012
2,205
3,146
a South Pacific island
MacRumours seems to have run out of rumours about the Mac Mini:

Screen Shot 2020-02-04 at 11.50.01.png

Screen Shot 2020-02-04 at 11.49.37.png
 
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MarkC426

macrumors 68040
May 14, 2008
3,557
1,992
UK
7 months.....that is short compared to MacPro news prior to 2019 release.
How often do you expect upgrades.
 

Micky Do

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2012
2,205
3,146
a South Pacific island
7 months.....that is short compared to MacPro news prior to 2019 release.
How often do you expect upgrades.
Upgrades / new iterations have varied in frequency from a couple in a year to a few years apart since the Mac Mini arrived on the scene in 2005. I bought one of the originals, and then the early 2009 model about May that year (there was a late 2009 update too). I was anticipating getting a new one, but when the 2018 model hit the market it was inappropriately specced, with more power than I need, insufficient on board storage and over priced from my point of view. Not really a consumer model, no wonder the Mini is rarely seen on display in stores these days.

Currently in an itinerant phase of my life, the MacBook Air I originally picked up to use for work 18 months ago is serving my purposes, albeit with an upgrade to 500 Gb of storage. However, I look forward to the time I can settle down somewhere again, and set up Mac Mini on a desk...... If the was a new iteration that is a better fit to my budget and needs I would get one, otherwise the 2009 will come out of storage, and have to suffice.
 

Micky Do

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2012
2,205
3,146
a South Pacific island
From a normal company? At least yearly.
Really?

In the American car market annual updates seem to be the norm, but it is not so in other markets or for other products. Some things go unchanged for years, while others are updated as technology develops, consumer expectations changes and so on. Apple is no different from normal in that respect.
 

opeter

macrumors 68030
Aug 5, 2007
2,680
1,602
Slovenia
Oh, the lovely car analogy. :)

Yeah, the European car manufacturers have a model refresh every year aswell. If nothing else, just a facelift.
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,069
1,405
Really?

In the American car market annual updates seem to be the norm, but it is not so in other markets or for other products. Some things go unchanged for years, while others are updated as technology develops, consumer expectations changes and so on. Apple is no different from normal in that respect.

Oh, the lovely car analogy. :)

Yeah, the European car manufacturers have a model refresh every year aswell. If nothing else, just a facelift.

In my experience, all these refreshes, annual, facelifts, and new models serve to boost consumer interest against a backdrop of increasing costs due to inflation.

For European cars entire models last 5-7 years, with annual refreshes to justify the annual price increases.

Annual 'refreshes' usually involve making certain optional extras part of base specs over time - it's part of the expectation of consumers who may have otherwise balked at annual price increases year on year.

An exterior facelift is a major affair, giving the look of the model a refresh - this usually happens once during a model lifetime but can happen twice if the entire model hangs around for an 8th year.

This makes the model look fresher for consumers even though the underlying car is the same vehicle but obviously for repair purposes there are different panels to manufacture.

On an underlying basis, if something needs to be changed the manufacturer may choose to wait for a facelift model (halfway through the lifetime of a vehicle) to add wireless CarPlay for example, or fix the way some electrics are routed if there is an issue.

And finally, an all new model is there to take in new engine tech, improvements in materials, and electronics - which are notoriously slow to get updates on cars - CarPlay is only just starting to feed in cars having been around for years.

How does this apply to the Mac mini?

Well, over time consumers may have their interest piqued by a new form factor - having become bored of the old one - making the 2018 model space grey was a great way of setting it apart from the 2014 if they weren't going to completely redesign the exterior.

Apple may find that the cooling system on a model that's essentially looked the same since 2011 could be improved still further - that's something that was addressed "under the hood" between 2014 and 2018 because of the CPU choice and change in storage format.

And the world PC market usually sees PCs drop in price steadily over time. Apple don't do this which runs counter to how PCs are usually marketed. But to use a car analogy, new technology replaces old and one of the major arguments against the 2014 mini was the CPU that was superseded many times over the 4 long years that it never got the update.

This is part of the reason why Intel offer a refresh mostly every year. An annual refresh with the newly available Intel CPU keeps the Mini up to date.

Without annual 'updates' that consumers like us expect, interest will wane - some people think apple don't care, others refuse to buy because a refresh would mean a bigger leap in tech.

So a 2020 mini with the least amount of updating would just see a doubling in storage for no extra money because Apple can afford to do it judging by what they did with the 16" Macbook Pro - this is because Apple generally don't discount prices throughout the lifetime of a product.

There would be no engineering resources required and Apple would balance the cost of increasing the SSD on SKUs with the increase in sales.

A 'facelift' would actually see Apple updating the innards with a new more current CPU while keeping the enclosure the same. This would also bring a boost in sales but would it be worth it for Apple?

Obviously an entirely new model could see the Mini going further upmarket and becoming bigger to accommodate onboard discrete graphics, new CPU, and decent cooling. Let's call it a 'Mac'?

Freak out if they don't update the machine this Sept/Oct.

If they are taking the Mini seriously they'll have to look at it. If they want to see revenue from the Mini go up they'd also have to chase even higher spec customers to make more money per unit. This would require an external redesign of the existing chassis unless Apple were eyeing up a move to H series mobile Ice Lake CPUs to take advantage of extra threads for their Colo customers with TDPs going up.
 
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Spectrum

macrumors 68000
Mar 23, 2005
1,799
1,112
Never quite sure
As noted above, The current SSD pricing is not in line with the new 16 MBPro. Hopefully the new 13 inch MBPro will also get the new treatment (more storage for the same price), and then the Mac mini will also follow, with standard configs at 256 and 512 GB SSD but no actual change in sticker price.

However, I think there is an outside chance that the prices may go down $100 (with no change in specs), and SSD upgrade prices adjusted accordingly.
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
From a normal company? At least yearly.
It would be nice if Intel would release a refreshed chip.

Until then, what exactly would you suggest might be in a mini update?
[automerge]1580897706[/automerge]
Freak out if they don't update the machine this Sept/Oct.
Assuming that Intel will have released new S-series 65W “B” parts for Apple to use by this June, sure.
 
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