U.S. Labor Department Opens Investigation Into Apple

[I7guy]

"feeling mistreated" is not what I'm talking about. They have actually already shown they feel they can bend the rules.

Because you have done something bad or shady in your past, you have also shown you are capable of doing that on a continuing basis? Is that really where this conversation is headed? Those bag checks are not related to this investigation.

You can not force an employee to spend uncompensated time for things like "security bag checks"...

They did and they paid. But there were no criminal charges.

The only reason Apple thought they could get away with it is they are massive and could spend lots of money in court before they finally realized they weren't going to win and settled. This type of attitude for something that is so clearly against labor laws isn't promising for a lot of their policies...

Sometimes companies believe they are in the right, but are found out not to be. Other times they are in the right and they actually are.

The two people who I know and eventually quit told me things I couldn't believe were legal, but I am not a lawyer... they were developers in two completely different departments, both got a salary, one was a web developer and the other worked on applications. Some of the policies they told me about seemed absolutely ridiculous.

It is pretty clear Apple has the same idea some on this forum do, that they are a dream job and so they can demand whatever they want if you want to to work for them.

Apple should be demanding, but what they demand should be attitude, innovation and performance....not something "illegal."

 

[Silverstring]

Funny how many anti-apple people show up in these forums.

That's funny...I think too many anti-people people show up in these forums.

Funny how nobody investigates amazon after 6 people died being forced to work through a tornado

Go work for amazon, lol

I wouldn't carry water for Amazon, either. Not mutually exclusive for them both to be investigated.

Edit: typo

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

Friendly reminder: all reasonable claims should be investigated, and we should reserve judgment until the investigation is complete.

 

[I7guy]

So does a homosexual employee telling two straight males he’s busy choosing which one of the two he’d like to bend over during his lunch break count as sexual harassment? How about when it’s reported and employees are interviewed about it and NOTHING is done Is that fair for calling it mistreatment

Is this some made up scenario? Or are you trying to say unless the system doesn't work unless it's perfect 100%.

 

[iamasmith]

I seem to recall, after somebody fairly important to a project I was working on a few years ago said 'Goodnight and goodbye' one day that CA has an 'employ at will' statute that entitles employees to leave or employers to terminate an employment on any given day without a specific reason. Is this not so?

 

[duervo]

Yeah... I disagree with the sentiment you are conveying, and the "I have power over you so I control you" element... (so I agree with you, for the record).

However, teasing out the more-relevant pieces and discarding the emotional vitriol in said sentiment (please know this is not against you personally), there is still the matter of "appreciation" one gets from working hard towards an achievement which then results in the establishment of "value".

It's the "value" that we are going for. If I give someone $1,000 (or rupees or euros, pick one), then they will just burn it. It's not appreciated and has no value. If you hire Random Karen from the street and make them CEO, they will implode in a week and everything burns, because there's no value.

Value is derived from Appreciation, and Appreciation is a function of work/effort invested.

You simply cannot wizardly declare and bestow everyone with equal privileges (which is SEPARATE from "equal rights"!). "Equal pay for equal work" is a right, and should be established. Key word: "equal WORK". CEOs and audio chip assemblers are not equal work, but they do deserve equal rights. Privileges are a function of the Station. What is good for the C-suite won't be as good for the staff. The upper dudes have more accountability than the keyboard-programmer (who, BTW, needs serious help.. this iPad on screen keyboard is awful). Bad press for Apple Maps got Forstall fired, but not the 350 people who crapped out the code and data. Accountability.

However, again, Accountability is the "check and balance" to all the above. Unchecked power results in absolute power, which results in absolute corruption. Then again, "quis custodiet ipsos custodies?" That's why companies have a Board of independent Directors.

Too much of these elements and details are getting lost it today's headline-driven drama. People everywhere need to take a breath. We're gonna kill ourselves otherwise..

For clarity … for the benefit of others here that may not know or remember, and if the various news reports were accurate, Forstall was asked to apologize for the Apple Maps fiasco (ie: take responsibility.) Reportedly, he refused to do so, thereby refusing to take responsibility, which is why he was fired.

 

[TinyMito]

Funny how many anti-apple people show up in these forums.

Funny how nobody investigates amazon after 6 people died being forced to work through a tornado

Go work for amazon, lol

Amazon pickers pee into a bottle of water. No time for the bathroom.

 

[Ant2369]

It is 100% a true scenario Clearly they’re system doesn’t work…. I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on with 100% true stories proving their system doesn’t work

Is this some made up scenario? Or are you trying to say unless the system doesn't work unless it's perfect 100%.

 

[I7guy]

It is 100% a true scenario Clearly they’re system doesn’t work…. I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on with 100% true stories proving their system doesn’t work

Good. So the investigation should bear that out and they will have to change.

 

[farmboy]

I'm sorry... I almost was able to let this slide without additional comment!! Do you seriously think a company that was founded by and still idolizes Steve Jobs really treats people with fairness and dignity all the time??? =). Steve was great at many things... dealing with people wasn't one of them.

Jobs has been dead for about 10 years. More relevant is does Cook abuse employees?

 

[Ant2369]

Good. So the investigation should bear that out and they will have to change.

Sometimes it’s too little too late for the ones that were personally very affected by it all

 

[I7guy]

Sometimes it’s too little too late for the ones that were personally very affected by it all

That's the way it works. The affected personnel should file a harassment lawsuit. However, there would be many nuances, as I understand it. Is this recurring harassment? Was the employee spoken to by HR? etc, etc.

 

[hans1972]

So does a homosexual employee telling two straight males he’s busy choosing which one of the two he’d like to bend over during his lunch break count as sexual harassment? How about when it’s reported and employees are interviewed about it and NOTHING is done Is that fair for calling it mistreatment

I would retort: Only if you wear women's underwear.

This is like declaring open season on trash talking and humiliating each other which would spice up a boring company job.

And I would have an interesting story to tell friends.

 

[farmboy]

Apple has had provided many reasons in the past, I'd be vary about their PR talk. Including "only few devices affected" or "in some cases".

They saw quite some statements proven wrong at public court so I wouldn't necessarily choose them as virtuous truth tellers. They are first and foremost protecting their image as good as they can as they are a publicly traded company, I would do the same if I were them and I felt safe or had good odds when going with said accusation.

US labor law makes it very difficult to publicly disclose details of an employee's tenure, or reasons for dismissal. You can essentially just say "he/she was employed here from this date to that date". To do more puts your company in legal deep water.

 

[Stella]

Funny how many anti-apple people show up in these forums.

Funny how nobody investigates amazon after 6 people died being forced to work through a tornado

Go work for amazon, lol

You have a case of "what aboutism". What has Amazon got to do with this story?


FYI: Amazon ARE being investigated.

OSHA opens investigation after Amazon warehouse collapses during tornado, killing 6

Amazon said workers at the warehouse had little time to prepare when the National Weather Service declared a tornado warning on Friday night. The tornado arrived soon after, collapsing both sides of the warehouse and caving in its roof.

www.pbs.org

 

[hans1972]

They have actually already shown they feel they can bend the rules. You can not force an employee to spend uncompensated time for things like "security bag checks"... The only reason Apple thought they could get away with it is they are massive and could spend lots of money in court before they finally realized they weren't going to win and settled.

The case was not a slam dunk for the employees.

Apple won in the initial case in federal court. On appeal, the Ninth Circuit asked the California Supreme Court to rule on the application of some California law which went in favour of the employees. After such a clarification, the Ninth Circuit referred the case back to the initial court.

It might seem like employees have the right to get paid in such situations, but the opposite is true. Amazon warehouse workers lost a case in 2014 for getting paid for going though security checks.

The Apple employees only succeeded because the case was limited to California only and California law offer better protection for employees.

 

[jameslmoser]

The case was not a slam dunk for the employees.

Apple won in the initial case in federal court. On appeal, the Ninth Circuit asked the California Supreme Court to rule on the application of some California law which went in favour of the employees. After such a clarification, the Ninth Circuit referred the case back to the initial court.

It might seem like employees have the right to get paid in such situations, but the opposite is true. Amazon warehouse workers lost a case in 2014 for getting paid for going though security checks.

The Apple employees only succeeded because the case was limited to California only and California law offer better protection for employees.

There have been multiple cases where the facts are basically the same, and it has been ruled that employer's have to pay for things like this. I am not familiar with the specific of these cases and why they would be different, but I find it hard to believe Apple would have settled for $30 million dollars after fighting it for so long if they thought they might win.

 

[k1121j]

I'm sorry... I almost was able to let this slide without additional comment!! Do you seriously think a company that was founded by and still idolizes Steve Jobs really treats people with fairness and dignity all the time??? =). Steve was great at many things... dealing with people wasn't one of them.

I wholly disagree I think Steve was a master of dealing with people.

 

[jameslmoser]

Because you have done something bad or shady in your past, you have also shown you are capable of doing that on a continuing basis? Is that really where this conversation is headed? Those bag checks are not related to this investigation.

They did and they paid. But there were no criminal charges.

Sometimes companies believe they are in the right, but are found out not to be. Other times they are in the right and they actually are.

Apple should be demanding, but what they demand should be attitude, innovation and performance....not something "illegal."

1) Generally yes.

2) It wasn't a criminal case really, and they weren't charged with anything because they settled.

3 & 4) Why are you stating something obvious??? I feel like you are trying to argue without actually adding anything constructive.

 

[jameslmoser]

I wholly disagree I think Steve was a master of dealing with people.

That was satire, right?

 

[I7guy]

[...]

2) It wasn't a criminal case really, and they weren't charged with anything because they settled.

It was a civil matter not a criminal matter.

3 & 4) Why are you stating something the obvious??? I feel like you are trying to argue without actually adding anything constructive.

It's called...emphasizing the point!

 

[tridley68]

She's gone good riddance to the kook now she's looking to cash in if anything Applies Should find her a good place to get the proper medical treatment.

 

[entropys]

American working conditions must be pretty bad to think this is okay on here.

35 hour week, 32 vacation days, 12 bank holidays, unlimited sick days (cuz obviously you don’t just decide to get ill), 3 years of maternity leave and universal health care for the win ✌?

And low productivity. Dont forget that.

 

[entropys]

So does a homosexual employee telling two straight males he’s busy choosing which one of the two he’d like to bend over during his lunch break count as sexual harassment? How about when it’s reported and employees are interviewed about it and NOTHING is done Is that fair for calling it mistreatment

In such situations I always ask myself “what would Crocodile Dundee do?”

 

[mac 2005]

Why does this post allow comments? Nobody here knows anything about this case, and a series of uniformed opinions adds nothing to the "community." The misogynism also should give the moderators and Arn pause, but I guess page views are page views.