U.S. Lawmakers Call Apple's Move to Remove HKMap Live App 'Deeply Concerning'

[Justanotherfanboy]

I can see both sides here...

Obviously, it’s cool if you have the power in your country to try to affect positive change. If you have the ability to at least ask for dreamers to not get deported, go ahead & do so! If you have the ability to sponsor kids in coding, go ahead and do so! Etc.
This kind of thing satisfies me, as a human.
However, w/ the understanding that Apple is nearly powerless in China, is certainly not the highest tax payer in the country, as they are here (in stark contrast to that “other trillion dollar company”, Amazon that pays ZERO dollars in taxes); I fully understand that they are in a position where they can either continue to do business in that country, delighting consumers w/ their products while not being able to change the societal constructs there, or they can completely pull out of there, hurting the company, hurting the customers, etc. whilst having the exact same effect on their society- virtually none.
As a shareholder, since nothing will be different in that country, NO MATTER WHAT APPLE DOES, I’m certainly happy they aren’t making a completely meaningless gesture by pulling out.
It is very taut right now w/ the trade war & whatnot. I think it’s a good move to only try to affect societal changes in their own country (the good old US of A!), you know... where they actually can.
I don’t think they should not try to do anything positive at all... if they can’t do it in every country they operate in- & I don’t think they should simply cease operations in every country where they’re not poised to actually have a chance at successfully making changes.
It comes down to this: if it makes sense and is possible that making a stand on an issue will help others and yourself, steady on... if it would have negative effects for EVERYONE, including you- probably skip it.

 

[sdf]

The letter was written by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., Sen. Maro Rubio, R-Fla., Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas along with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., Rep. Mike Gallagher, R-Wisc., and Rep. Tom Malinowski, D-N.J.

This is ridiculous posturing by people who should have put a minimum effort into thinking the situation through.

Namely: What happens if Apple doesn't ban the app?

The government acts, and the devices lose all access to the App Store. Including the app in question.

 

[kazmac]

Profits over people, same ol' story from Tim's Apple. Hopefully no harm will come to anyone in HK as a result of this move (including the staff and customers at Apple stores if they are now targeted by the more violent protestors etc.)

I understand Apple is stymied by Xi's government though. Still, it's a very blatant nod to Apple's priorities and that's more troubling than ever.

 

[s54]

your siding the protestors no matter how violent they get, both public and private property getting destroyed because these violent protestors not getting what they want.

with your thinking, half of the world should burn in hell because no gov't is being held at 100% accountability.

jury still out, considered your appeal denied based on failed logic.
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wrong, many violent protestors targeting private property own and/or operate by mainland chinese citizens.

Judging by your reasoning, I can tell that you never lived or traveled abroad, let alone Asia. It appears that you know nothing about Chinese people and their mentality.

Nobody is siding with violent protesters. But for you suggest that all Hong Kongese protesters are violent is very distasteful. I sense extreme bias on your end. No matter how level-headed the protests become, you will find a reason to disapprove of their cause.

Your claim of protesters vandalizing businesses operated by mainland Chinese citizens is a misinterpretation of the ordeal. First off, the violent protesters have targeted mainland businesses that have direct ties to the CCP. I can cite many examples: Chinese banks, MTR stations, and even the local StarBucks is franchised and operated by someone in the mainland who condemned the protests. There wasn't a single private Chinese business that was vandalized without a motive. The "private" property you speak of belong to shop owners who have publicly voiced their displeasure with the movement and pledged allegiance to the CCP. And then people like you wonder why these businesses are targeted. That's exactly why.

Nobody is defending the actions of those who vandalise property in HK. But mainland Chinese and the rest of the world need not be surprised when their businesses are set on fire after publicly ridiculing what was initially a peaceful movement for a good cause.

What the media doesn't tell you is that there's no shortage of mainland Chinese who come to HK to provoke the protesters by screaming "One China!". They are no less responsible for the violence than some of the protesters are. Not to mention half of the HK police force are "reinforcements" sent in by the CCP.

 

[ilikewhey]

Judging by your reasoning, I can tell that you never lived or traveled abroad, let alone Asia. It appears that you know nothing about Chinese people and their mentality.

Nobody is siding with violent protesters. But for you suggest that all Hong Kongese protesters are violent is very distasteful. I sense extreme bias on your end. No matter how level-headed the protests become, you will find a reason to disapprove of their cause.

Your claim of protesters vandalizing businesses operated by mainland Chinese citizens is a misinterpretation of the ordeal. First off, the violent protesters have targeted mainland businesses that have direct ties to the CCP. I can cite many examples: Chinese banks, MTR stations, and even the local StarBucks is franchised and operated by someone in the mainland who condemned the protests. There wasn't a single private Chinese business that was vandalized without a motive. The "private" property you speak of belong to shop owners who have publicly voiced their displeasure with the movement and pledged allegiance to the CCP. And then people like you wonder why these businesses are targeted. That's exactly why.

Nobody is defending the actions of those who vandalise property in HK. But mainland Chinese and the rest of the world need not be surprised when their businesses are set on fire after publicly ridiculing what was initially a peaceful movement for a good cause.

What the media doesn't tell you is that there's no shortage of mainland Chinese who come to HK to provoke the protesters by screaming "One China!". They are no less responsible for the violence than some of the protesters are. Not to mention half of the HK police force are "reinforcements" sent in by the CCP.

You Are not good at reading others as you think?

I went to China for business 2 times in the last 5 years, studied abroad in Europe for college, lived and visited at least 12 countries.

I too sense extreme bias on your end. No matter how much evidence being presented even in western media showing violence by the protestors, you will find a reason to discredit them and give excuse to violence.

I guess Burning down small mom and pop shops is a-ok as long as the owners are from mainland right? Freedom and human rights are ok as long as you agree with the protestors?
by that logic you are perfectly excused burning down someone’s shop because that person does not agree with you politically
Get that nonsense out of here.

what the media also doesn’t tell you is how violent some of these protestors are getting, or how they destroy private properties because they owner has a different political view. in most western media folks like you paint then as angels who are peacefully protesting, yet these peaceful protests are shutting down airport, forcing innocent by standers to walk miles to their terminals. If someone throws a petrol bomb at a nypd cop that dude getting riddled with lead in under 10 seconds

 

[Wanted797]

The problem here is why do tech companies have the right/requirement to control what their users do with their technology?

If I’m caught speeding in my car I cop the fine. The government doesn’t demand car manufacturers installed limiters.

If the app was legal (presumably considering it was available.) it should be fine to be on the App Store. How the people use it is up to them.

Apple should just stand back.

 

[s54]

You Are not good at reading others as you think?

I went to China for business 2 times in the last 5 years, studied abroad in Europe for college, lived and visited at least 12 countries.

I too sense extreme bias on your end. No matter how much evidence being presented even in western media showing violence by the protestors, you will find a reason to discredit them and give excuse to violence.

I guess Burning down small mom and pop shops is a-ok as long as the owners are from mainland right? Freedom and human rights are ok as long as you agree with the protestors?
by that logic you are perfectly excused burning down someone’s shop because that person does not agree with you politically
Get that nonsense out of here.

what the media also doesn’t tell you is how violent some of these protestors are getting, or how they destroy private properties because they owner has a different political view. in most western media folks like you paint then as angels who are peacefully protesting, yet these peaceful protests are shutting down airport, forcing innocent by standers to walk miles to their terminals. If someone throws a petrol bomb at a nypd cop that dude getting riddled with lead in under 10 seconds

Oh, so you only went to China twice on business and that makes you an authority on the one-China principle? - I knew the Chinese central government were experts in brainwashing, but I didn't think it was possible in a span of two business visits. Also, 12 countries is weak, bro. Try 40.

There are bad apples on both sides, which you fail to acknowledge because you're on a mission to spread propaganda and nonsense the way CCP does.

I'm not naive enough to think that all protesters are peaceful. I'm also not brainwashed enough to think that all protesters are violent.

But if you're going to single out violent protesters as the root cause of this movement, maybe you should spend more time with Chinese people before coming to an absurd conclusion. Burning down businesses and shops is no less a crime than forcing your citizens to abide by Marxist principles.

Speaking of which, I haven't once heard you address police brutality, but I'm sure that you already have a bunch of excuses lined up. If you're so in love with communism, why aren't you moving to China?

Why are there so many mainland Chinese studying in universities overseas? Why is Xi's daughter studying at Harvard? Why are people in the mainland silenced and prohibited from discussing the Tiananmen Square Massacre?

Oh, that's right, according to you, it never happened. Nobody died at Tiananmen Square and the CCP is nowhere near as oppressive as the media portrays. They have the best human rights record on file and have every right to smash peaceful protesters demanding basic freedoms in HK. Shame on you for inciting this type of rhetoric.

 

[ilikewhey]

Oh, so you only went to China twice on business and that makes you an authority on the one-China principle? - I knew the Chinese central government were experts in brainwashing, but I didn't think it was possible in a span of two business visits. Also, 12 countries is weak, bro. Try 40.

There are bad apples on both sides, which you fail to acknowledge because you're on a mission to spread propaganda and nonsense the way CCP does.

I'm not naive enough to think that all protesters are peaceful. I'm also not brainwashed enough to think that all protesters are violent.

But if you're going to single out violent protesters as the root cause of this movement, maybe you should spend more time with Chinese people before coming to an absurd conclusion. Burning down businesses and shops is no less a crime than forcing your citizens to abide by Marxist principles.

Speaking of which, I haven't once heard you address police brutality, but I'm sure that you already have a bunch of excuses lined up. If you're so in love with communism, why aren't you moving to China?

Why are there so many mainland Chinese studying in universities overseas? Why is Xi's daughter studying at Harvard? Why are people in the mainland silenced and prohibited from discussing the Tiananmen Square Massacre?

Oh, that's right, according to you, it never happened. Nobody died at Tiananmen Square and the CCP is nowhere near as oppressive as the media portrays. They have the best human rights record on file and have every right to smash peaceful protesters demanding basic freedoms in HK. Shame on you for inciting this type of rhetoric.

Exaggeration, exaggeration and more exaggeration, that’s what your good at, numbers of countries irrelevant, not a measuring contest, I throw that number of countries I lived/visited to disprove your exaggeration that I never traveled/live abroad, good for you for going to 40 countries, what you want a cookie? ?

the only thing I’m spreading is the complete ignorance of most western media coverage on the violence committed by violent protestors from throwing petrol bombs at the police and burning down private properties of these who do not agree with their political view/goal.
if you think burning down folks shop and property because they don’t agree with your political agenda than you are just as bad as the worst of them, Shame on you

The number of students studying broad has multitude of factors, including competitiveness in the mainland, better air quality conditions, more space, etc. if you think communism is the cause of students studying abroad boy oh boy you need a wake up call?

Speaking of which, I haven’t once heard you address or condemning the violence produced by the protestors, in fact you are justifying it by saying it’s for the good cause of fighting Marxism, once again shame on you

again Your exaggeration is killing your argument, now your tying the Tiananmen Square topic into this debate, slippery slope much? I never even mentioned Tiananmen Square
So you can’t accord to me on any basis ?
As for police brutality goes, they are being very restrained, if such violence happened here cops will shoot anyone trying to lob a petrol bomb at them, never mind burning down shops and destroying subway entrances.

I didn’t fail to acknowledge jack, I know the agreement runs til 2047, the ccp wants to speed up the process that’s their business since it’s their land, you don’t like it go vote with your dollar or if you live there, move the hell out.
As far as I see it this is internal affair of the Chinese Govt, not the world and certainly not the us govt, we already wasted trillions of dollars and millions of lives trying to police everyone. If Marco Rubio or AOC wants to get in on that action tell them to put their boots on the ground and not at the expense of us tax payers

 

[russell_314]

Mmmm... Remember when the FBI asked Apple to unlock San Bernardino shooter supporting ISIS. Apple gave the US government middle finger. Just imagine if the Chinese government asked them. You know what the answer from Tim Cook.

The FBI asking for backdoor access to all iphones isn't even in the same realm. A better example would be if ISIS made an app to let them know the location of US convoys so they could ambush them with IED's. Of course ISIS would say they just want to use it to avoid US convoys for their safety.

 

[s54]

Exaggeration, exaggeration and more exaggeration, that’s what your good at, numbers of countries irrelevant, not a measuring contest, I throw that number of countries I lived/visited to disprove your exaggeration that I never traveled/live abroad, good for you for going to 40 countries, what you want a cookie? ?

the only thing I’m spreading is the complete ignorance of most western media coverage on the violence committed by violent protestors from throwing petrol bombs at the police and burning down private properties of these who do not agree with their political view/goal.
if you think burning down folks shop and property because they don’t agree with your political agenda than you are just as bad as the worst of them, Shame on you

The number of students studying broad has multitude of factors, including competitiveness in the mainland, better air quality conditions, more space, etc. if you think communism is the cause of students studying abroad boy oh boy you need a wake up call?

Speaking of which, I haven’t once heard you address or condemning the violence produced by the protestors, in fact you are justifying it by saying it’s for the good cause of fighting Marxism, once again shame on you

again Your exaggeration is killing your argument, now your tying the Tiananmen Square topic into this debate, slippery slope much? I never even mentioned Tiananmen Square
So you can’t accord to me on any basis ?
As for police brutality goes, they are being very restrained, if such violence happened here cops will shoot anyone trying to lob a petrol bomb at them, never mind burning down shops and destroying subway entrances.

I didn’t fail to acknowledge jack, I know the agreement runs til 2047, the ccp wants to speed up the process that’s their business since it’s their land, you don’t like it go vote with your dollar or if you live there, move the hell out.
As far as I see it this is internal affair of the Chinese Govt, not the world and certainly not the us govt, we already wasted trillions of dollars and millions of lives trying to police everyone. If Marco Rubio or AOC wants to get in on that action tell them to put their boots on the ground and not at the expense of us tax payers

I figured it out. You’re part of the 50-cent army.

There’s no other explanation behind your one-sided communist narrative.

Next time, try turning every one of your “your” into “you’re” and maybe you’ll be taken more seriously.

 

[ilikewhey]

I figured it out. You’re part of the 50-cent army.

There’s no other explanation behind your one-sided and biased communist-supporting narrative.

Next time, try turning every one of your “your” into “you’re” and maybe you’ll be taken more seriously.

no idea what the hell is a 50 cent army but whatever makes you sleep at night ?

throwing me into a category because i don't agree with your view, you are one of these that throws a tantrum when you don't get what you want.

next time try not to go off topic and throw in other irrelevant subjects to bolster your argument, and toning down on your exaggeration. maybe then your argument will sound convincing and not just a good laugh whenever i see a notification from you.

 

[koruki]

"deeply concerning" heard these empty political statements many times before.. bit of wah wah with no actual action that they can justify.. more like trying to get their name on the press
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I figured it out. You’re part of the 50-cent army.

There’s no other explanation behind your one-sided communist narrative.

Next time, try turning every one of your “your” into “you’re” and maybe you’ll be taken more seriously.

oh look at me. I found a typo so I can win an argument without adding anything

 

[russell_314]

I figured it out. You’re part of the 50-cent army.

There’s no other explanation behind your one-sided communist narrative.

Next time, try turning every one of your “your” into “you’re” and maybe you’ll be taken more seriously.

So many people in the USA have terrible grammar. I don't have perfect grammar myself. Pointing out he uses your instead of you're doesn't mean he's part of the "50 cent army". I suspect they would be trained on using proper grammar.

 

[nvmls]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/dkhtdo

 

[russell_314]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/dkhtdo

It's a picture. What were these "pedestrians" doing? Were they rioting? China doesn't have the Baltimore mayor running things telling the police to let them burn down the city.

 

[stylinexpat]

Yeah, each state already sets its own laws.

True, but when you commit crimes in other states in the US like killing someone in another state don’t they send you to that state to be tried in that state? Also, if you commit a traffic violation in another state aren’t you held responsible in that particular state?

 

[1146331]

This is ridiculous posturing by people who should have put a minimum effort into thinking the situation through.

Namely: What happens if Apple doesn't ban the app?

The government acts, and the devices lose all access to the App Store. Including the app in question.

So profit over human rights, am I right?

 

[russell_314]

So profit over human rights, am I right?

TBH profit does beat human rights every day. Look at how corporations treat their employees. The real question would be is it a human right to have this app? If it's being used to attack police then I would say no. Apple said in a statement that they verified this was the case. We have Waze in the USA but it's mostly meant to avoid speed traps. If it was being used on a mass level to attack police I think Apple would pull it.

 

[stylinexpat]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/dkhtdo

People seem to have forgotten how the US dealt with Wall Street protesters

Revealed: how the FBI coordinated the crackdown on Occupy | Naomi Wolf

Naomi Wolf: New documents prove what was once dismissed as paranoid fantasy: totally integrated corporate-state repression of dissent

www.theguardian.com

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Judging by your reasoning, I can tell that you never lived or traveled abroad, let alone Asia. It appears that you know nothing about Chinese people and their mentality.

Nobody is siding with violent protesters. But for you suggest that all Hong Kongese protesters are violent is very distasteful. I sense extreme bias on your end. No matter how level-headed the protests become, you will find a reason to disapprove of their cause.

Your claim of protesters vandalizing businesses operated by mainland Chinese citizens is a misinterpretation of the ordeal. First off, the violent protesters have targeted mainland businesses that have direct ties to the CCP. I can cite many examples: Chinese banks, MTR stations, and even the local StarBucks is franchised and operated by someone in the mainland who condemned the protests. There wasn't a single private Chinese business that was vandalized without a motive. The "private" property you speak of belong to shop owners who have publicly voiced their displeasure with the movement and pledged allegiance to the CCP. And then people like you wonder why these businesses are targeted. That's exactly why.

Nobody is defending the actions of those who vandalise property in HK. But mainland Chinese and the rest of the world need not be surprised when their businesses are set on fire after publicly ridiculing what was initially a peaceful movement for a good cause.

What the media doesn't tell you is that there's no shortage of mainland Chinese who come to HK to provoke the protesters by screaming "One China!". They are no less responsible for the violence than some of the protesters are. Not to mention half of the HK police force are "reinforcements" sent in by the CCP.

I must have missed something.. Where did someone say “All”? I think we all know that there are ”both” peaceful and violent protesters in Hong Kong now which has been reported by numerous media outlets now as well. Over the course of my time in Hong Kong I found that many people are quite divided on this issue with probably probably half supportive and half not so supportive or against the protesters. As for business owners I know of many in Hong Kong and the majority seem to oppose as it harms business interests and Hong Kong being mostly about money explains some of their feelings.

 

[frostiex]

I am just so sad of the brutality of the government. This really reminds me of the Stanford prison experiment. Some of the police don't even know the brutality they are carrying out....

 

[russell_314]

People seem to have forgotten how the US dealt with Wall Street protesters

Revealed: how the FBI coordinated the crackdown on Occupy | Naomi Wolf

Naomi Wolf: New documents prove what was once dismissed as paranoid fantasy: totally integrated corporate-state repression of dissent

www.theguardian.com

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I must have missed something.. Where did someone say “All”? I think we all know that there are ”both” peaceful and violent protesters in Hong Kong now which has been reported by numerous media outlets now as well. Over the course of my time in Hong Kong I found that many people are quite divided on this issue with probably probably half supportive and half not so supportive or against the protesters. As for business owners I know of many in Hong Kong and the majority seem to oppose as it harms business interests and Hong Kong being mostly about money explains some of their feelings.

If protesters are being peaceful I say leave them alone but if they're setting fires, attacking police, damaging property, etc, then they need to be dealt with harshly. Not with real bullets but there's nothing wrong with a little non lethal as it's called in LE.
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I am just so sad of the brutality of the government. This really reminds me of the Stanford prison experiment. Some of the police don't even know the brutality they are carrying out....

You're not sad about the brutality of these protestors or rioters? They had one cut a police officers throat. That is okay with you?
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Don't get me wrong I'm not against HK going to war if they want to fight for their Independence. This is exactly what the USA did and won. I'm just against this passive aggressive BS where they attack police and innocent people then complain when they get roughed up.

 

[frostiex]

If protesters are being peaceful I say leave them alone but if they're setting fires, attacking police, damaging property, etc, then they need to be dealt with harshly. Not with real bullets but there's nothing wrong with a little non lethal as it's called in LE.
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You're not sad about the brutality of these protestors or rioters? They had one cut a police officers throat. That is okay with you?

The whole thing that is happening in HK is unjust to begin with. Any brutality is sad. But 1 vs HOW MANY? ya I do side with the protester, it was China breaking an international treaty to instigate this to begin with. When the blood boils actions can be skewed. They were peaceful initially. Until police start shooing people, beating up people in hospital. Hiring assassins to kill protest leader and blame the local mosque. The they shot paint bomb at the mosque, it was the protester who help them clean up before it is dry.

So yes, any brutality is sad. But police committing crime to blame protesters and the killing of these police on countless others are insane,

 

[stylinexpat]

If protesters are being peaceful I say leave them alone but if they're setting fires, attacking police, damaging property, etc, then they need to be dealt with harshly. Not with real bullets but there's nothing wrong with a little non lethal as it's called in LE.
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You're not sad about the brutality of these protestors or rioters? They had one cut a police officers throat. That is okay with you?

What would police in the US do if protesters were throwing petrol bombs at them? If you walk towards an officer in the US after an officer pulls you over you risk being killed. In fact if you walk towards any officer in the US after he tells you to stop you risk being killed as they are trained to shoot to kill and not disarm. As I said many are peaceful but many also are not so people here quite divided on these protests. I am 50/50 on this as I see and understand both points of view and sides.

Resurgent Hong Kong protesters stage huge rally, violence erupts again

Police and pro-democracy protesters battled on the streets of Hong Kong on Sunday as thousands of people rallied in several districts in defiance of attempts by the authorities to crack down on demonstrators.

www.reuters.com

 

[russell_314]

What would police in the US do if protesters were throwing petrol bombs at them? If you walk towards an officer in the US after an officer pulls you over you risk being killed. In fact if you walk towards any officer in the US after he tells you to stop you risk being killed as they are trained to shoot to kill and not disarm. As I said many are peaceful but many also are not so people here quite divided on these protests. I am 50/50 on this as I see and understand both points of view and sides.

Resurgent Hong Kong protesters stage huge rally, violence erupts again

Police and pro-democracy protesters battled on the streets of Hong Kong on Sunday as thousands of people rallied in several districts in defiance of attempts by the authorities to crack down on demonstrators.

www.reuters.com

The police in the USA would possibly shoot someone if they tried to throw a Molotov cocktail at them. I can't speak for every officer or situation but being shot would definitely be a possibility. Just as I would be against people attacking LE in the USA I'm against it in other countries. These officers have shown great restraint in their actions. I'm sure this was due to orders from higher as to not give the protestors ammunition.

 

[anthogag]

It is unbelievable how political everything is in China. Apple removed the app or it turns into a big boycott of Apple products in China.

Equally unbelievable is it appears most Chinese citizens are brain-washed and would quickly do their duty and boycott Apple for political reasons.

Huawei's CEO saying he admires Apple is not a good thing. This means Apple is a direct target for industrial espionage, reverse engineering, copying, etc.

India is a democracy and a better place for Apple's manufacturing goals. China has proved they're setting-up to be a major antagonist for the West.