Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
U.S. Lawmakers Call Apple's Move to Remove HKMap Live App 'Deeply Concerning'
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Uh oh, a child and/or the President of the United States might do the same thing I did. I better stop. /s
Ok, so don't ban Find My Friends or iMessage, but ban Waze because it tells you where cops are? Here's my point. Apple has had a bad habit of banning apps that threaten their bottom line or don't fit their political agenda, whether or not the app is actually breaking their policies. They also let apps that are breaking their policies (precedented by some apps they've banned for breaking the same policy) stay as long as it fits their agenda or pads their wallets. Regardless of what this particular app is being used for by some of its users, Apple shouldn't have the right to play judge, jury, and executioner with every situation that involves an Apple product, especially if they're not going to at least be consistent with their decisions.
Also, to be clear, I'm not a "Everything Tim Cook does is horrible and Steve Jobs is constantly rolling in his grave" type of person. I'm actually with Tim and Apple on the majority of their decisions. But them and other major US corporations doing whatever China asks (often in direct opposition to these US corporations proclaimed "values" or "policies") just so they can continue making money off Chinese consumers? No, I'm not cool with that.
Well, I don’t see many multi millionaire celebrities criticizing China about anything at all. That’s what I’m talking about, their public virtue signaling not what they might feel deep inside them.
I’d be interested to see some examples to support what you said in the second paragraph. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t know if I can think of an equivalent to HK map as far as enabling crime.
I think one thing that is often forgotten in these arguments about corporate morals/hypocrisy is that different countries demand different things from companies. And while it seems nice to think that standing up to a country is the right thing to do, the reality is that companies need to consider what’s on the line for not only themselves, but also their customers. Imagine if apple was banned from hong kong: so many people there would all of a sudden have no support for their devices, apple care plus or not. So while I do agree that Apple is exercising their responsibility to shareholders by keeping markets open, they are also exercising a responsibility to their customers as well. What is the point of a company fighting the government’s battles when they have everything to lose?
Trump's horrifying corruption and abuses of power? Not so much.
That's a good one.
Also nothing about self dealing and the G7 summit.
Anyway, I understand that Apple is a multinational corporation and running afoul of the Chinese government could mean a complete ban of products. Apple cannot afford a ban.
Look at Google. China does not allow GAPPS to be preinstalled on phones in the country.
So for economic reasons, Apple removed the app.
Lmao, no politician is on your side. Don’t be so ignorant to think republicans care about you.
Apple really can't win this one. And I have to say, calling them out for it like these politicians, from their comfy DC offices is also a bit too much. IMO.
No doubt, by this time the protesters have more than enough agents provocateurs in their ranks that commit all kinds of ****** acts (and entice others to do the same) that make the protestors look bad from almost every side and every angle.
No doubt, by this time the protesters have more than enough agents provocateurs in their ranks that commit all kinds of ****** acts (and entice others to do the same) that make the protestors look bad from almost every side and every angle.
The problem is that the bulk of the profit for these companies comes from the U.S.A. and Europe. I think we are starting to see more awareness of incongruity between what those companies espouse and virtue signal. Here we see Apple and Tim Cook, often outspoken for many freedoms rapidly selling out those "core values" to appease a totalitarian regime to make a quick buck. These issues are now exposing this hypocrisy for all to see.
Personally, I would love to see a shift away from China as long as it continues to be a bad actor.
What I don’t understand is why Apple even approved the app in the first place. They cannot have not known the controversy it would bring. Ironically, if Apple had simply blocked the app to begin with, I don’t think it would have attracted as much attention as it did.
Someone is definitely sleeping on the job here.
I would say: Here we see Apple and Tim Cook, often outspoken advocating equal rights in the United States when it comes to Apple and it's employees, often against the US government. And knowing that CEOs of Untied States corporations have no role getting involved in the politics of foreign countries, does not meddle in China or other countries, similar to the stance taken by CEOs of other United States companies.
"These issues are now exposing this hypocrisy for all to see."
And those that have such strong and deep feelings about this subject and accompanying hypocrisy, are hypocrites themselves, when they willingly purchase goods, tech and non-tech, from companies (including Apple) who have manufacturing operations in China.
Last edited:
Apple is in a no-win situation with China. It's not about cheap labor or the lucrative market. The main issue is that it will take them a decade or longer (if ever) to replace China's manufacturing capabilities elsewhere. Chinese manufacturing is an existential problem for Apple.
If Tim Cook stood his ground on this issue and China pulled the plug on Apple's manufacturing and sales, there would be a shareholder revolt and Cook would be ousted as CEO.
Everyone predicted that doing business with China would allow us to export our freedoms to the Chinese people. Instead, it is enabling the Chinese government to export their authoritarianism to the rest of the world.
This isn't an Apple problem. It's a global problem.
If Tim Cook stood his ground on this issue and China pulled the plug on Apple's manufacturing and sales, there would be a shareholder revolt and Cook would be ousted as CEO.
Everyone predicted that doing business with China would allow us to export our freedoms to the Chinese people. Instead, it is enabling the Chinese government to export their authoritarianism to the rest of the world.
This isn't an Apple problem. It's a global problem.
The problem in the United States [And the UK] right now is the different political parties not coming to any compromise.
In the case of our current president, the Democrats and manyRepublicans hate him so much that they will do anything to get him out of office, even if it's not in the best interest of the country because they are so deranged.
The purpose of a representative government is to represent the people, not the politician's interest. I agree with you.
And that is why I would like to see a move away from China... as I said in the very post you quoted.
Clearly you haven't been watching or reading news about this issue. You should try to read or learn first the historical events that lead to this situation right now before you can understand why is it at this level right now.
Yes it was at first peaceful protest however as their number grows the government becomes threatened and they started to violently disperse the protesters. The state used force and violence and the people who are frustrated reacted to it violently too.
From the start of the conflict it was expected that this will reach into a violent clash between the government forces and the protesters. As expected the state used force and violence to try to undermine and as our world history has showed us this will always end up in violence and destruction.
The reality is the people in Hong Kong are afraid of main land China. They are afraid that once the law is passed main land China can simply pluck them out of their home and bring them to main land China and from their their future is uncertain or they don't have any future at all. With their fear they went out to the street to protest to their government who they expected to protect them from such threat but instead is the one putting them in it. Their government tried to disperse them but they come back and back again because for them they are fighting for their life and freedom.
For us, who are not in their situation it is easy to say that what they are doing is wrong. But I am in their situation I will feel the same way too and probably will be on the street.
Remember the American civil war? As history repeatedly showed us, freedom and democracy are not given but they are taken by force and blood. No tyrant will just simply say - okay i'm done you can have your freedom and liberty.
With its 300 million population, if this happen in US then 1 million protesters is nothing. However you have to consider and understand that the region only has 7 million population and 1 million of it is protesting on the street. It already means that the people have spoken. The irony is the government exist to protect its people and there is no government without its people but in Hong Kong their own government is putting them in harms way.
The good thing about this is that most of the protesters are youth. This means that their youth are political aware and understands that their fight today is for their future and they know that they are the future of their society and they should act now before it will be too late for them.
I will support Politicians staying out of Apple's business when Apple and the other large Tech companies decide stay out of the Politicians' business.
[automerge]1571531714[/automerge]
Then they should stop exploiting principles for profit.
I disagree with the decision, but honesty compels us to acknowledge that "the app was being used maliciously to target individual officers for violence and to victimize individuals and property where no police are present", if true, is actually a pretty serious problem.
If companies want to take political stances and preach to the US
Consumer they better back them up when doing business in other markets.
Consumer they better back them up when doing business in other markets.
Very simple point. Are you on the ground in Hong Kong? Do you know first hand what is going on there? Do you know anyone who is a citizen and resident of Hong Kong who has personally witnessed these events?
I do know these people and the way many are interpreting the “violence” as instigated by rioters are falling for the propaganda that mainland Chinese politicians and state run media are peddling. It’s unwise to support their claims without having a sense for the other side of the story.
The only point I’ve been trying to make is that we must hold others to the same standards we expect for outsells. Trust that if we tried to take the rights of people away in the US that there would be protests. And if the law enforcement used force to dissuade protesters there would be push back and conflicts.
Just look at the events of the 1960’s in the US regarding the Vietnam war. Then also compare that to the peaceful protests lead my Dr. Martin Luther King. You think the police in the southern more racist townships didn’t use unjustified force and intimidation to dissuade them? The fundamental difference there is MLk was excellent at inspiring those he lead to refuse to give in to violence.
I mentioned this in another post but look is the Tiananmen Square incident in mainland China during the 1990’s. Then consider who these Chinese government officials are and what the people of Hong Kong are afraid of.
Lastly, the overarching point is that Apple (like many other companies) can’t have it both ways. If they’re going to insist they support human rights etc etc etc. Then they should stand by their words. Or they should shut the hell up.
if China doesn’t want certain app in their country, well... it‘s their decision. Nothing can really be done about that. It’s their domain, their home, whether Apple and everyone else including me, likes it or not.
Let the politicians deal with politics, and businesses mind their own businesses.
Let the politicians deal with politics, and businesses mind their own businesses.
Tha
t's not going to happen. DO you know how many people are employed in China for Apple? Millions and they will be out of jobs. Chine will never do that.
So Apple is the judge and jury here? FB and twitter inspire all kinds of crimes. Apple doesn’t ban them.
[automerge]1571554331[/automerge]
China can withstand that but so can Apple tbqh...
I agree Apple should be consistent. I also agree Apple allowed themselves to be manipulated by China because they put all of their eggs in an authoritarian governments basket. Tim should’ve known this was going to eventually come back to haunt him. What’s to stop China from banning other apps from Americans when they get offended again?
The monster in the room, towering over the elephant, is the Leftist-relatavistic mindset that our education system has caused people to reason in the way mutmac has:
1 - there is no right and wrong.
2 - anyone who says that someone else, whom I agree with, is wrong, is speaking hate-speech.
3 - there is no right and wrong, so whatever laws other countries make are fine, and no one can criticise the laws of other countries.
4 - US corporations should just abide by whatever laws of other countries, with no consideration that a small number of nations have crossed the line, in terms of totalitarian regimes. The above post is rooted in the basic notion that there is no right and wrong, and we should not criticise.
As the U.S. society veers towards a socialist-leftist mindset - departing from the ethics of the foundation generations, this type of thinking, exemplified by the quoted post, will become more and more acceptable in American society.