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kemal

macrumors 68000
Dec 21, 2001
1,831
2,230
Nebraska
All of Apple's decisions are economic. Tim's boiler plate about caring for "X" is really a means to an end. That end is, of course, money.
 

ilikewhey

macrumors 68040
May 14, 2014
3,592
4,632
nyc upper east
Give me a break. Hope that you never need anyone’s help. Let alone anyone who you’ve spoken to in this manner. Do you also insist that a battered wife who shoots her husband in self defense is guilty as sin? Oh and let me guess. A suspicious looking dark skinned person walks by your home and it’s totally ok to shoot them in cold blood right? Cause you felt threatened....

Check your ideology at the door please.
here ya go.
1571486145974.jpeg

have no idea what you are even on about, are you talking about cops in the state shooting for far less?

check your logical reasoning at the door please.
 

nvmls

Suspended
Mar 31, 2011
1,941
5,219
Not quite correct. Some of us questioning him have not bought Apple products for years.

Right, an exceptional human being, brought out by himself among the rest, who neither bought any chinese, indian, thailand, indonesian, etc made goods "for years". Look, being real about it, doesn't make me any less hypocrite either.
 
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nt5672

macrumors 68040
Jun 30, 2007
3,383
7,222
Midwest USA
It's ok. Don't stress over it. This is a philosophical thread, not a reality thread. ;)

I don't stress over things like this, but I do wonder how some people get through life with the level of ignorance shown in certain posts in this thread. I guess they spent too much time in their safe place and not enough time in the real world.
 
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5105973

Cancelled
Sep 11, 2014
12,132
19,733
Which is true. If the sole purpose of the app is to circumvent the law (HK police), how can Apple approve such app in the App Store? People might not agree with the law in question in this case (Chinese influence over HK) but it is still the local law. The people of HK could use Waze, which also shows the location of police, but that’s not the sole purpose of the app and therefore it’s not banned in HK.
What law was Apple breaking by selling the app? Any app can be used at some point to break a law. That doesn’t mean selling the app was breaking any laws and I do believe a local HK official said as much.

Also that wasn’t the sole purpose of the app. That may be what Tim’s Beijing handlers told him. But other people were reportedly relying on the app to AVOID trouble. Plenty of people needed to go to work and school and didn’t want to get caught up in the chaos and used the app to find out spots to avoid according to people in HK, not Beijing.

Tim pulled the app. Fine. But he should have not equivocated about why in an internal memo to his employees.
 
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Hirakata

macrumors 6502
Mar 17, 2011
314
400
Burbank, CA
In short, the losers are Hong Kong citizens who are now live in fear, in a destabilizing country. It is pointless to talk big about free speech and democracy now when the actions are hurting innocents citizens. No rights shall trample the rights of others.

Really? If a certain group of old white men believed this, then the United States wouldn't even exist...
 
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Defthand

macrumors 65816
Sep 1, 2010
1,351
1,712
Do you even understand what you're saying?
There's the thing called the INTERNET, and Apple doesn't block Safari nor other web browsers. You can go to hkmap.live which is also a URL. Remember the internet and how to use it?
And so the availability of Hkmap.live (which works fantastic on mobile safari btw) absolves Apple entirely right? Not being on the App Store is a minor speed bump for Tech savvy protestors that use every platform available.

My suggestion isn't exclusively about the practical workarounds to unavailable apps. Nor is it limited to the immediate situation. It is about Apple avoiding the PR backlash that its censorship standards and political kowtowing invite. It's understandable if Apple wants to disallow controversial and tasteless apps from its own app store if their app store wasn't the only means to acquire and install those apps. Instead, the current arrangement places the burden on Apple to decide which user liberties and content they respect. Allowing users to side load apps without Apple's involvement would make Apple's editorial policies inconsequential. MacOS doesn't have the same limitations. Why does iOS have these limitations? Is there something about iOS or mobile computing that is inherently fragile, vulnerable, or conversely abusable?

Ultimately, we know that no app or other Internet tool is effective if the authorities hack it, block domains, or black out Internet services. The Arab Spring uprising illustrated this. So Apple is unnecessarily making itself a political scapegoat in these matters when all it wants to do is sell its Disneyesque products.
 

pika2000

Suspended
Jun 22, 2007
5,587
4,902
Really? If a certain group of old white men believed this, then the United States wouldn't even exist...
Really? Did the founding fathers of the US vandalized local business properties of their own people and hurt their own innocent citizens?
 

maxsquared

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2009
609
432
London
I've been following the NBA story. I don't understand. From comments of similar news else, why Chinese people from China seems to love China, and anyone else seems anti China? Fascinating really.

I guess bias works on both sides and it works.
 

Sedulous

macrumors 68030
Dec 10, 2002
2,530
2,577
How can China get "more totalitarian" than what happened in Tiananmen Square decades ago? People were protesting for rights and they ended up being executed or sent to prison camps. The United States and other countries around the world still wanted to trade and do business with China. People are fooling themselves by treating China's reaction to Hong Kong as if it's something new. Telling Apple to remove an app isn't worse than executing people for dissent.
China has become more totalitarian in things like social score, consolidation of power under a single person, massively expanded surveillance in both terms of complexity and ubiquity, and implementing the largest internment camps in the world all point towards totalitarianism.

The real issue is increasingly clear. China’s communist party is not compatible with democracy.
 
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jlseattle

Cancelled
Jan 9, 2007
501
356
Seattle WA
This is such a complex issue. It’s funny how we had no problem with using China and Chinese people in the resources to produce products. But now we have a problem with them asking us to not sell them a app.
As Americans, we’ve always put profit above principles and morals. I guess we have to pick our poison. Are we a government and company that stands up for principles? Or are we a government company that stands up for profits? I don’t know if you can have it both ways.
 

Techwatcher

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2013
881
2,174
NYC
While politicians should stay out of it, they are 100% correct. HKMap shouldn't have been removed. It is no different from Waze.
 

thadoggfather

macrumors P6
Oct 1, 2007
15,580
16,327
as much as I despise AOC, and have warmed up to Cruz over the years (despite thinking he was a totally bozo when he spitefully went to RNC to not endorse their candidate ... because ego / butt hurt), I love bipartisan movements like this. I hope this only continues.

People in general fundamentally disagree about a few things, vehemently, like the direction we should take as a country -- but I think on a lot of levels both sides (not necessarily those players but supporters of the sides) can find commonality even in the most divisive times
 

gnipgnop

macrumors 68020
Feb 18, 2009
2,210
2,989
The real issue is increasingly clear. China’s communist party is not compatible with democracy.

That was already clear 30 years ago. Both China and the United States are willing to ignore governmental systems that they don't agree with in order to do trade and business. If Apple decided to defy the Chinese government and had their operations shut down in the country, other American companies would still do business there and Huawei, Xiaomi etc. would still be trying to sell things in the U.S.
 

Glideslope

macrumors 604
Dec 7, 2007
7,990
5,444
The Adirondacks.
I don't stress over things like this, but I do wonder how some people get through life with the level of ignorance shown in certain posts in this thread. I guess they spent too much time in their safe place and not enough time in the real world.

It’s more about what “their perception of the real world“ is. We are so divided today that the term “reality” is in itself not reality. :apple:
 
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alphaod

macrumors Core
Feb 9, 2008
22,183
1,245
NYC
How about our lawmakers take care of law-related things and fix problems with our government before going around worrying about what companies do with apps.
 
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stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,108
4,542
I wonder how those Lawmakers feel about apps reporting police locations in the US. Big move to remove police location from Waze which Google owns. US Lawmakers often are hypocrites with double standards
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Apples only interest was shareholders.
Not exactly true because if interest was that of shareholders their dividends would not be so low for such a highly profitable company
 

dannys1

macrumors 68040
Sep 19, 2007
3,662
6,787
UK
I still think it’s a complicated matter, but is now leaning more towards my general feeling of: when in doubt, chose the path that f**ks with China!

Thats my general feeling too, but replace China with USA.
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American's think it's wrong - yet imagine if Hawaii decided they were sick of Trump and wanted to become independent. Trump would have water cannons down there ASAP and if there was an app showing them where police where he'd be wanting it banned instantly.
 

dannys1

macrumors 68040
Sep 19, 2007
3,662
6,787
UK
I read a lot of opinions that claim the US is just as corrupted and guilty of mass deaths as China. Fine. Let’s say that’s true. Then either don’t criticize neither of them or criticize both of them.

When all these multi millionaire celebrities sit on their high horses and trash our President and the USA for transgender ban in the military or transgender bathroom rights but at the same time they keep their mouths shut about China crimes and they bow to the communist regime, then they are hypocrites And they don’t have the right to speak and be heard of.

I'm pretty sure most sane people are completely critical of both. It's the nutty right wing religious republicans which have bizarre hypocritical views.
 

NY Guitarist

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2011
1,585
1,581
There are location information apps already approved and in use for years that allow for reporting of police location. Waze is a good example.

Apple is clearly using a double standard to do the will of the Chinese government.
 
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