U.S. Lawmakers Call Apple's Move to Remove HKMap Live App 'Deeply Concerning'

[katewes]

Quite simply, if an app is being used to target a build-up of people for violent / targeting reasons, then I firmly agree with Apple’s decision to remove such an abhorrent app.

How stupid are these lawyers and politicians to go against this?

You sound like a person who believes everything you read in the newspaper.

Consider this (and I make up figures to illustrate my point):

-- e.g. Facebook messenger, iMessages, email etc are used by 100 million people. One hundred use it for criminal purposes. Do we ban everyone from using it?

-- the HongKong.live app was used by 1 million people to avoid the police. One hundred people (possibly plants by the Communists) used it to attack police. Do we pull the app?

You see, it's how you spin it.

 

[mdridwan47]

Tim is nothing but a giant hypocrite

Finally more and more people are seeing this. I realized this back in 2016.

 

[dantroline]

"These issues are now exposing this hypocrisy for all to see."

And those that have such strong and deep feelings about this subject and accompanying hypocrisy, are hypocrites themselves, when they willingly purchase goods, tech and non-tech, from companies (including Apple) who have manufacturing operations in China.

Time for a Chinagate probe into Apple and similar companies.

 

[Lalatoon]

if China doesn’t want certain app in their country, well... it‘s their decision. Nothing can really be done about that. It’s their domain, their home, whether Apple and everyone else including me, likes it or not.

Let the politicians deal with politics, and businesses mind their own businesses.

That is were you are wrong my friend... political conflicts affect us all. Whatever political decisions politicians makes affects everybody directly or indirectly, this includes business sectors, religious sectors.. practically everyone that is part of that society. Let say that a political decision has been made that will directly affect farmers sector and you are in the labor sector, it will indirectly affect you of course since you buy products grown by the farmers. That is why it is very dangerous to say that let politician deal with politics without your attention at all because your might wake up one day not understanding why you are jobless, why the gas is too high, why you can't afford your medication and there is no health care for you, why you are homeless or why you are in prison and of course dead can no longer wonder why they are dead. That is why it is very important that each of us must have some level of political awareness. If you don't have some level of political awareness then I guess it is right to say that you don't have the right to complain.

Another thing is China and Hong Kong have different government because of the "one country, two systems" principle. The Great Firewall of China does not apply to Hong Kong and for that reason China can not demand that Hong Kong ban apps that China doesn't like. This is the reason why Google and Facebook is still accessible in Hong Kong.

Among tech companies, Apple is one of the most successful in doing business with China. Facebook and Google are not successful at all even after many attempts. However, the success of Apple in China is becoming its biggest problem. They are now very dependent on China specially with their production line. They can not just pull out of China overnight without incurring huge loss. Because of this China can literally bully them to submission. I guess Google and Facebook is feeling relieved that they have not invested in China.

The reality is China with its huge market will challenge the western world and even the rest of the world. In this economic conflict, foreign companies that relied so much in China will be the first casualty. Apple is in a dangerous water right now, if the conflict between US and China intensifies they might become the first casualty. I guess it is a right move for them to start looking at India for its production line before it will be too late for them.

 

[daniesy]

Came here to read all the fanboys comments defending Apple. Was not disappointed. Disgusting.

 

[s54]

That app has been used by the more extreme rioters to avoid police and vandalize train stations and shopping mall, there are a lot of criminal stuffs the western media doesn’t show or even mention and only cast the protestors in good spotlight

Yes, it has. So what???

US dollar has been used by cartels and organized crime groups for centuries now. Why wasn’t it banned yet?

The HKMap is still be used via the browser. It’s just less convenient. The app was also used by non-violent protesters to avoid riots and stay out of harms way.

You seem very biased and misinformed.

 

[ilikewhey]

Yes, it has. So what???

US dollar has been used by cartels and organized crime groups for centuries now. Why wasn’t it banned yet?

The HKMap is still be used via the browser. It’s just less convenient. The app was also used by non-violent protesters to avoid riots and stay out of harms way.

You seem very biased and misinformed.

So it breaks local law, using cartel is a weak comparison, a proper comparison would be silkroad where it’s also aiding illegal activities, which the fbi or dea has shut down.

using hkmap on safari is out of apple control, but the App Store is 100 percent apples domain. That app has been more frequently used by violent protestors to evade cops than non violent protestors trying to evade danger.
You equally seem biased and misinformed

 

[russell_314]

Wait they took time away from their Trump impeachment obsession to be concerned about something else? I find this hard to believe!

 

[AlexGraphicD]

The monster in the room, towering over the elephant, is the Leftist-relatavistic mindset that our education system has caused people to reason in the way mutmac has:

1 - there is no right and wrong.
2 - anyone who says that someone else, whom I agree with, is wrong, is speaking hate-speech.
3 - there is no right and wrong, so whatever laws other countries make are fine, and no one can criticise the laws of other countries.
4 - US corporations should just abide by whatever laws of other countries, with no consideration that a small number of nations have crossed the line, in terms of totalitarian regimes. The above post is rooted in the basic notion that there is no right and wrong, and we should not criticise.

As the U.S. society veers towards a socialist-leftist mindset - departing from the ethics of the foundation generations, this type of thinking, exemplified by the quoted post, will become more and more acceptable in American society.

It is truly terrifying seeing how the greatest country in the world is turning to nother cultureless European leftist s*hole! As a European immigrant to the US that has lived through generations of socialist, progressive policies I can say for sure that socialism is a scam, it just doesn’t work! It’s funny how lazy, self entitled Americans that haven’t lived through socialism, yet they want to turn this country into a socialist state instead of listening to the millions of immigrants around the world that have actual experience and we’re lucky to escape to the greatest country ever created only to see it become like the rest of the economically failed and demoralized countries of the world.

Wake up people. You can’t be seriously offended and trash this great country because of stupid transgender bathrooms or gender pronouns rights and not speak up for the mass killing of citizens from the oppressive communist regime. You are plain hypocrites. Clearly, the crimes that China does are miles ahead of those of US.

 

[russell_314]

I support Tim Cook on this one because I'm pro law enforcement. These rioters violently attack police so they don't need some app to make their attacks or getaways easier.

 

[5H3PH3RD]

Just put the app in the US App Store. If some folks in HK just so happened to create a US iTunes Store account to download the app.... oh well...

 

[pika2000]

Just put the app in the US App Store. If some folks in HK just so happened to create a US iTunes Store account to download the app.... oh well...

Err, you don’t even need an app. Just go to the url hkmap.live through Safari. People somehow forgot about the INTERNET.

This is just the politicians virtue signaling to their constituents so they can be seen as someone who cares about human rights, using Apple as the vehicle for news.

 

[stylinexpat]

That is were you are wrong my friend... political conflicts affect us all. Whatever political decisions politicians makes affects everybody directly or indirectly, this includes business sectors, religious sectors.. practically everyone that is part of that society. Let say that a political decision has been made that will directly affect farmers sector and you are in the labor sector, it will indirectly affect you of course since you buy products grown by the farmers. That is why it is very dangerous to say that let politician deal with politics without your attention at all because your might wake up one day not understanding why you are jobless, why the gas is too high, why you can't afford your medication and there is no health care for you, why you are homeless or why you are in prison and of course dead can no longer wonder why they are dead. That is why it is very important that each of us must have some level of political awareness. If you don't have some level of political awareness then I guess it is right to say that you don't have the right to complain.

Another thing is China and Hong Kong have different government because of the "one country, two systems" principle. The Great Firewall of China does not apply to Hong Kong and for that reason China can not demand that Hong Kong ban apps that China doesn't like. This is the reason why Google and Facebook is still accessible in Hong Kong.

Among tech companies, Apple is one of the most successful in doing business with China. Facebook and Google are not successful at all even after many attempts. However, the success of Apple in China is becoming its biggest problem. They are now very dependent on China specially with their production line. They can not just pull out of China overnight without incurring huge loss. Because of this China can literally bully them to submission. I guess Google and Facebook is feeling relieved that they have not invested in China.

The reality is China with its huge market will challenge the western world and even the rest of the world. In this economic conflict, foreign companies that relied so much in China will be the first casualty. Apple is in a dangerous water right now, if the conflict between US and China intensifies they might become the first casualty. I guess it is a right move for them to start looking at India for its production line before it will be too late for them.

Would you accept a “One country,two systems” principle for Hawaii and the US or perhaps Alaska? You think America would accept or allow this? Would Japan allow Okinawa to do this?

 

[s54]

So it breaks local law, using cartel is a weak comparison, a proper comparison would be silkroad where it’s also aiding illegal activities, which the fbi or dea has shut down.

using hkmap on safari is out of apple control, but the App Store is 100 percent apples domain. That app has been more frequently used by violent protestors to evade cops than non violent protestors trying to evade danger.
You equally seem biased and misinformed

Nonsense. You’re siding with the crimes of the CCP while an overwhelming majority of peaceful Hongkongers march for basic human rights. Shame on you.

With your thinking, Uber app should also be banned because China doesn’t like it and because it’s been used by people in many countries to catch rides to and from many protests, including violent ones.

Case closed.

 

[s54]

Would you accept a “One country,two systems” principle for Hawaii and the US or perhaps Alaska? You think America would accept or allow this? Would Japan allow Okinawa to do this?

You completely missed the point and provided ludicrous examples.

HK was promised by China to function as its own independent system in one country when it was given back in 1997. That promise should last exactly 50 years.

However, China has not kept that promise. They’ve been eroding basic democratic freedoms in HK since the handover.

I don’t ever recall Hawaii, Alaska, or Okinawa being promised a one country two systems by any country. Again, your example doesn’t apply. Educate yourself.

 

[stylinexpat]

You completely missed the point and provided ludicrous examples.

HK was promised by China to function as its own independent system in one country when it was given back in 1997. That promise should last exactly 50 years.

However, China has not kept that promise. They’ve been eroding basic democratic freedoms in HK since the handover.

I don’t ever recall Hawaii, Alaska, or Okinawa being promised a one country two systems by any country. Again, your example doesn’t apply. Educate yourself.

You can dismiss them if you wish but reality is HK belongs to China. Yes, there is an agreement in place for 50 years. The issues though over extradition are a bit Complicated. Just look at how the US wants to extradite Huawei's CFO to the US to be tried in the US. The extradition part for someone who commits murder and comes back to Hong Kong is still an issue. In your opinion should a person who committed murder in Taiwan or China be extradited there to face murder charges or not? I support half of it but not all of it (the other half I oppose) because it does not explicitly state what one can be extradited for.
This helps better explain

Can Beijing and Hong Kong Rejuvenate ‘One Country, Two Systems’?

The “one country, two systems” principle has structural limitations that merit addressing.

thediplomat.com

Hong Kong’s internal contradiction of “one country, two systems”

A model that encourages yet limits liberal democracy plagues Hong Kong, says Albert H.Y. Chen, a professor at the University of Hong Kong

www.economist.com

 

[thevault]

The globalist (Tim Crook)and others will sell out the individual for money when/where ever possible

For the people who support China because of financial gains (Hollywood, Audio/Visual) please move to this Communist Country that have gulags and harvesting human organs

 

[s54]

You can dismiss them if you wish but reality is HK belongs to China. Yes, there is an agreement in place for 50 years. The issues though over extradition are a bit Complicated. Just look at how the US wants to extradite Huawei's CFO to the US to be tried in the US. The extradition part for someone who commits murder and comes back to Hong Kong is still an issue. In your opinion should a person who committed murder in Taiwan or China be extradited there to face murder charges or not? I support half of it but not all of it (the other half I oppose) because it does not explicitly state what one can be extradited for.
This helps better explain

Can Beijing and Hong Kong Rejuvenate ‘One Country, Two Systems’?

The “one country, two systems” principle has structural limitations that merit addressing.

thediplomat.com

Hong Kong’s internal contradiction of “one country, two systems”

A model that encourages yet limits liberal democracy plagues Hong Kong, says Albert H.Y. Chen, a professor at the University of Hong Kong

www.economist.com

This has absolutely nothing to do with extradition. That was just the trigger. HK has been plagued with a political crisis since 1997 now. And this isn’t the first wave of protests.

The fact that HK belongs to China does not mean that China can erode HK’s freedoms, which were agreed upon during the handover. That’s the whole purpose behind one country two systems. That’s why these protests exist in the first place. The CCP is not upholding the terms they agreed to.

What you and many other misinformed Westerns fail to realize is that HK protesters are not anti-Chinese. They are anti-CCP. Big difference.

 

[thevault]

This has absolutely nothing to do with extradition. That was just the trigger. HK has been plagued with a political crisis since 1997 now. And this isn’t the first wave of protests.

The fact that HK belongs to China does not mean that China can erode HK’s freedoms, which were agreed upon during the handover. That’s the whole purpose behind one country two systems. That’s why these protests exist in the first place. The CCP is not upholding the terms they agreed to.

What you and many other misinformed Westerns fail to realize is that HK protesters are not anti-Chinese. They are anti-CCP. Big difference.

Bingo!!!

 

[Sedulous]

Would you accept a “One country,two systems” principle for Hawaii and the US or perhaps Alaska? You think America would accept or allow this? Would Japan allow Okinawa to do this?

Yeah, each state already sets its own laws.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

iMessage has been used by criminals to plan and coordinate with each other to commit horrible crimes. If Apple allows (forces) iMessage to remain on our phones after it has been used for such horrifying actions, they must allow HKMap Live to remain as well...

I hope Apple will have the courage to remove iMessage from future versions of iOS!

 

[atomic.flip]

I agree Apple should be consistent. I also agree Apple allowed themselves to be manipulated by China because they put all of their eggs in an authoritarian governments basket. Tim should’ve known this was going to eventually come back to haunt him. What’s to stop China from banning other apps from Americans when they get offended again?

Well exactly. Imagine a New York Times article is published with a less than flattering perspective on China. So the Chinese state run media and various officials contact Apple and demand the NYT app be removed from the all regions AppStores and that they kick them off of the News app?

It might seem far fetched today but Apple has already set a precedent of capitulation which proved to China that they are in a strong bargaining position.

 

[ilikewhey]

Nonsense. You’re siding with the crimes of the CCP while an overwhelming majority of peaceful Hongkongers march for basic human rights. Shame on you.

With your thinking, Uber app should also be banned because China doesn’t like it and because it’s been used by people in many countries to catch rides to and from many protests, including violent ones.

Case closed.

your siding the protestors no matter how violent they get, both public and private property getting destroyed because these violent protestors not getting what they want.

with your thinking, half of the world should burn in hell because no gov't is being held at 100% accountability.

jury still out, considered your appeal denied based on failed logic.
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This has absolutely nothing to do with extradition. That was just the trigger. HK has been plagued with a political crisis since 1997 now. And this isn’t the first wave of protests.

The fact that HK belongs to China does not mean that China can erode HK’s freedoms, which were agreed upon during the handover. That’s the whole purpose behind one country two systems. That’s why these protests exist in the first place. The CCP is not upholding the terms they agreed to.

What you and many other misinformed Westerns fail to realize is that HK protesters are not anti-Chinese. They are anti-CCP. Big difference.

wrong, many violent protestors targeting private property own and/or operate by mainland chinese citizens.

 

[kaneda]

But if it was an ISIS app being removed, you wouldn't mind at all.

Mmmm... Remember when the FBI asked Apple to unlock San Bernardino shooter supporting ISIS. Apple gave the US government middle finger. Just imagine if the Chinese government asked them. You know what the answer from Tim Cook.

 

[jtara]

Pretty simple. This cuts both ways. It's unreasonable to ask Apple to violate the law, or defy a lawful order or policy in another country. Regardless of your agreement/disagreement with the law or policy.

Should Apple also cave in to foreign influence that might encourage them to defy U.S. laws, lawful order, and policy within the U.S.?

Sorry, but they have to go by the laws of each country they operate in.