Vinyl Enthusiasts?

[Scepticalscribe]

Curious, do you still play records on a regular basis?

No, but I am sorely tempted to return to doing so, as I loved it, and I still have a considerable collection of vinyl records, some of which I have inherited from my parents; a few years ago, when I returned from a lengthy (the best part of two years) deployment to central Asia, I did discuss buying a serious stereo set-up in considerable detail with some staff in one of the best high-end (but small, family owned) audio stores in the country.

I had already bought other stuff from them (B&W headphones, B&W speakers etc).

However, the responsibility of caring for my mother soon took over once again, and I had neither time nor energy to devote to other interests, as her care needs took absolute priority. In fact, it is only now that I am in a position to reclaim elements of my life for myself.

 

[SandboxGeneral]

Calling turntable experts.

Which is the more preferred system, belt-driven or direct drive?

I have a belt-driven one right now and I swear on some LP's or more likely certain tracks with long notes, that I hear a variation in speed of the turntable as the notes will change in pitch just enough for me to notice it.

 

[D.T.]

No, but I am sorely tempted to return to doing so, as I loved it, and I still have a considerable collection of vinyl records [...]

If I had a large, existing vinyl collection, I'd absolutely have a turntable (and related supporting components ...)

Calling turntable experts.

Which is the more preferred system, belt-driven or direct drive?

I have a belt-driven one right now and I swear on some LP's or more likely certain tracks with long notes, that I hear a variation in speed of the turntable as the notes will change in pitch just enough for me to notice it.

I always thought the general consensus was:

Belt drive gives better isolation from the motor, but takes some time to get to speed, and requires a little more maintenance

Direct drive allows immediate speed, can decouple and provide completely free movement (for like DJ use), but can introduce some "noise" from the motor

 

[ThisBougieLife]

Calling turntable experts.

Which is the more preferred system, belt-driven or direct drive?

I have a belt-driven one right now and I swear on some LP's or more likely certain tracks with long notes, that I hear a variation in speed of the turntable as the notes will change in pitch just enough for me to notice it.

If you’ve ever been on an audiophile forum, you’ll know this debate is endless and unresolved

As far as vintage Japanese turntables go (those by Technics, Pioneer, JVC, Sony), belt drive was used on cheaper models and direct drive, especially quartz direct drive (where a quartz crystal is used to maintain perfect speed), was used on nicer, higher-end models (these models are heavier, more solidly built, have better tonearms and more features, etc.)

As far as new turntables go, virtually all of them are belt drive; very few direct drive turntables are currently manufactured outside of those aimed at DJs (direct drive has better torque, which is important for DJ use).

Belt drives are more susceptible to wow and flutter (the variation in speed you're hearing), but a good belt drive shouldn't have noticeable wow and flutter. Some cheaper ones will.

I've never heard much difference between the two myself, only a few outliers that had issues. Good turntables, both belt and direct drive, sounded equally fine to my ears.

 

[D.T.]

I've never heard much difference between the two myself, only a few outliers that had issues.

Well, clearly you're not listening to them on Wilson Audio WAMM Master Chronosonics like I am ...





*snicker*

 

[SandboxGeneral]

If you’ve ever been on an audiophile forum, you’ll know this debate is endless and unresolved

No, I really haven't. Though with my vast experience here, I had a good feeling that question might encourage some sporty conversation. That's why I used the term "more-preferred" over "best" since everything is subjective anyhow.

As far as vintage Japanese turntables go (those by Technics, Pioneer, JVC, Sony), belt drive was used on cheaper models and direct drive, especially quartz direct drive (where a quartz crystal is used to maintain perfect speed), was used on nicer, higher-end models (these models are heavier, more solidly built, have better tonearms and more features, etc.)

As far as new turntables go, virtually all of them are belt drive; very few direct drive turntables are currently manufactured outside of those aimed at DJs (direct drive has better torque, which is important for DJ use).

Belt drives are more susceptible to wow and flutter (the variation in speed you're hearing), but a good belt drive shouldn't have noticeable wow and flutter. Some cheaper ones will.

I've never heard much difference between the two myself, only a few outliers that had issues. Good turntables, both belt and direct drive, sounded equally fine to my ears.

Wow and flutter. Thanks for the more specific definition of what I recently started hearing. The turntable is a Teac one and it's maybe 8 or 9 months old. I use it to play a couple of albums, maybe once or twice a week. So it doesn't get overused by any means. I think I paid around $130 for it, maybe, without looking it up.

Based on what you wrote, I wonder if I just bought a cheaper one and the motor is weaker than a more expensive, higher quality turntable. I only started noticing the wow and flutter in the past 2 weeks. Could it be the belt needs replacing instead? What is a typical lifespan of a belt? I know that question is not easy to answer due to many variables, but any idea would appreciated.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

No, I really haven't. Though with my vast experience here, I had a good feeling that question might encourage some sporty conversation. That's why I used the term "more-preferred" over "best" since everything is subjective anyhow.


Wow and flutter. Thanks for the more specific definition of what I recently started hearing. The turntable is a Teac one and it's maybe 8 or 9 months old. I use it to play a couple of albums, maybe once or twice a week. So it doesn't get overused by any means. I think I paid around $130 for it, maybe, without looking it up.

Based on what you wrote, I wonder if I just bought a cheaper one and the motor is weaker than a more expensive, higher quality turntable. I only started noticing the wow and flutter in the past 2 weeks. Could it be the belt needs replacing instead? What is a typical lifespan of a belt? I know that question is not easy to answer due to many variables, but any idea would appreciated.

I haven't heard good things about the Teac turntables, unfortunately. One vinyl reviewer I like said that the wow and flutter was so bad on one Teac model that he did not even bother finishing the review. As far as beginner turntables go, I would recommend U-Turn or Audio Technica.

 

[D.T.]

Yeah, when I was shopping for a "relatively" inexpensive turntable, I was looking at the AT LP120, but I think I would've wound up with a U-Turn, bought as a custom build direct, like this:

The main gist with the custom is selecting the upgraded Ortofon 2M cartridge, still for under $400 it seemed like a killer setup (both audio and aesthetics), and I'd definitely opt for an external phono pre-amp.

 

[SandboxGeneral]

I haven't heard good things about the Teac turntables, unfortunately. One vinyl reviewer I like said that the wow and flutter was so bad on one Teac model that he did not even bother finishing the review. As far as beginner turntables go, I would recommend U-Turn or Audio Technica.

Audio Technica does seem to me to be a very popular brand when I watch audio reviews and other similar videos where turntables are in them.

I did choose the Teac at the cheap price-point on purpose because I wasn't sure how committed to getting into the vinyl hobby I'd be. But after this much time, and the amount of records @D.T. has caused me to purchase, I'm in the hobby now for the long haul.

You say that Audio Technica and U-Turn are good beginner brands. What brands would you recommend above them in the not-so-beginner category?

With all that said, the next one I buy, I want to be very good quality and long-lasting at a reasonable price. It doesn't have to be cheap, but I also don't want to spend $1,000 either.

 

[gkarris]

A good belt drive with a good motor tends tends to cost more than a vintage with a direct drive quartz.
Gave my friends my old AR EB-1 with a still perfect motor, belt and speed after all these years

I can hear speed variations so prefer the direct drive quartz with a strobe, but I guess you can use an app to measure it so I bought a vintage Sony direct quartz drive works great as well.
[automerge]1579812708[/automerge]

You say that Audio Technica and U-Turn are good beginner brands. What brands would you recommend above them in the not-so-beginner category?

With all that said, the next one I buy, I want to be very good quality and long-lasting at a reasonable price. It doesn't have to be cheap, but I also don't want to spend $1,000 either.

Fluance has gotten good reviews for the price.

 

[D.T.]

But after this much time, and the amount of records @D.T. has caused me to purchase, I'm in the hobby now for the long haul.

Hahaha, I have a H U G E list of vinyl - for someone else to purchase - I'll continue to forward them your way ...

 

[ThisBougieLife]

Audio Technica does seem to me to be a very popular brand when I watch audio reviews and other similar videos where turntables are in them.

I did choose the Teac at the cheap price-point on purpose because I wasn't sure how committed to getting into the vinyl hobby I'd be. But after this much time, and the amount of records @D.T. has caused me to purchase, I'm in the hobby now for the long haul.

You say that Audio Technica and U-Turn are good beginner brands. What brands would you recommend above them in the not-so-beginner category?

With all that said, the next one I buy, I want to be very good quality and long-lasting at a reasonable price. It doesn't have to be cheap, but I also don't want to spend $1,000 either.

If you want something a little higher end, I’d look at Rega and Pro-Ject. Both have a lot of options that range from entry level decks for $300 to high end boutique ones for thousands. Rega P2 is a good option, so is the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon.

 

[bbrks]

And to add to it, at least Ortofon 2M Red should be the cartridge. 2m Blue would be even better, but again, the real question here is how far are you ready to go. After all, HIFI is extremely contagious disease

 

[rationalconsumer]

I love listening to vinyls! Couple of days ago I received Ollie Wride purple vinyl. Not only sounds amazing but also looks nicely

 

[SandboxGeneral]

I love listening to vinyls! Couple of days ago I received Ollie Wride purple vinyl. Not only sounds amazing but also looks nicely

Nice. I love Ollie Wride's music as well.

 

[MattG]

Audio Technica does seem to me to be a very popular brand when I watch audio reviews and other similar videos where turntables are in them.

I did choose the Teac at the cheap price-point on purpose because I wasn't sure how committed to getting into the vinyl hobby I'd be. But after this much time, and the amount of records @D.T. has caused me to purchase, I'm in the hobby now for the long haul.

You say that Audio Technica and U-Turn are good beginner brands. What brands would you recommend above them in the not-so-beginner category?

With all that said, the next one I buy, I want to be very good quality and long-lasting at a reasonable price. It doesn't have to be cheap, but I also don't want to spend $1,000 either.

Audio Technica stuff is great, and I'd also recommend Pro-Ject for their mid-range stuff. I have an AT table and two Pro-Ject tables; very happy with all three!

Something like this I would consider mid-range, better than entry-level. Comes with a great cartridge, acrylic platter, and built-in speed-change switch (some tables don't have this and you have to change the belt around manually).

Pro-Ject - Debut Carbon Esprit SB (Black)

The Debut Carbon Esprit SB (DC) brings all the benefits of the Debut Carbon (DC) but adds an electronic speed change and an acrylic platter. It is the perfect turntable to listen to LPs and singles, but also 78 rpm shellac records. The most obvious improvement is the inclusion of a Carbon tube fo...

www.amazon.com

 

[MattG]

So....any thoughts on these?! Is it a gimmick? Do they work well? I'm intrigued.

Pro-Ject: Vertical Turntable Right - White (VT-E R)

Buy Pro-Ject: Vertical Turntable Right - White (VT-E R) at TurntableLab.com, a Better Music Store Experience since 1999.

www.turntablelab.com

 

[D.T.]

So....any thoughts on these?! Is it a gimmick? Do they work well? I'm intrigued.

Pro-Ject: Vertical Turntable Right - White (VT-E R)

Buy Pro-Ject: Vertical Turntable Right - White (VT-E R) at TurntableLab.com, a Better Music Store Experience since 1999.

www.turntablelab.com

Years, er, decades ago, I had a linear tracking turntable, it was vertical but also the tone arm tracked across in straight line (the spin [pun intended] was an arm that tracked in a curve from a fixed point put less consistent forces in the groove ... I think it was mostly to accomodate a vertical system, but this is interesting, it looks conventional over than the orientation).

 

[Silencio]

Years, er, decades ago, I had a linear tracking turntable, it was vertical but also the tone arm tracked across in straight line (the spin [pun intended] was an arm that tracked in a curve from a fixed point put less consistent forces in the groove ... I think it was mostly to accomodate a vertical system, but this is interesting, it looks conventional over than the orientation).

Interestingly, that Pro-Ject mechanism is not linear tracking despite it being in a vertical orientation. I don't think I've seen that before.

Speaking of vertical linear tracking turntables, I always kind of wanted a Sony PS-F5 to play around with. They're supposed to be surprisingly good decks:

 

[D.T.]

I had a Mitsubishi, maybe even this exact model (there's a few variants):

 

[MattG]

Interestingly, that Pro-Ject mechanism is not linear tracking despite it being in a vertical orientation. I don't think I've seen that before.

One thing I've found since I made the post about the Pro-ject is that apparently the downforce is not adjustable, and it's made to work with a particular cartridge. That's kinda lame.

The turntable is supplied with fitted cartridge Ortofon OM 5E. The counterweight supplied is suitable only for Ortofon OM cartridges. Cartridge downforce is pre-adjusted from the factory.

 

[Allyance]

I owned a record and stereo store in the seventies, the move to Canada and work for a couple stores there. We were the first to import Audio Research electronic and speakers (Magnaplanars). Then moved into professional audio, building nightclub systems. I have sold hundreds of SL1200's, they were a great turntable, never had a problem with one I still have a SL1500. One day I went into a store in Toronto and listened to Toto's "Africa" on a Sony portable CD player, I couldn't believe the quality and the dynamic range. To me the constant absence of surface noise and increased dynamic range far out way a vinyl record which degrade with every play. There are great turntables/cartridges and there is a lot of garbage. There are good digital systems and cheap ones. Pays your money and take your pick. I rarely listening to records any more, mine are all old, dirty and scratched. Whether vinyl or CD, they are links in the entire chain with speakers being the weakest link.

 

[Allyance]

If you are true aficionados of vinyl, then check out Sheffield Lab Recordings that were cut direct to disc in the beginning.

www.sheffieldlab.com

Now they have high quality CD's.

 

[AustinIllini]

Special edition of "Bottle it In" by Kurt Vile has this fun color.

 

[MattG]

Special edition of "Bottle it In" by Kurt Vile has this fun color.

View attachment 892261

I've got that same one! Kurt's the man.