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defjam

macrumors 6502a
Sep 15, 2019
795
735
No the system disk did not go bad, in fact I put it back in and relettered it. I am not sure why Win 10 did that.. but that is totally not cool... the disk was fine... It makes no sense at all...
How do you know it was Windows?
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,676
The Peninsula
How do you know it was Windows?
I find this puzzling as well.

Windows maps volumes to drive letters via a signature (think of it as a GUID) assigned when the volume is created. You can move the disk around between different ports or slots - but the signature doesn't change and the drive letter therefore doesn't change.

The drive number may change, but the drive number is basically irrelevant at the system and user level - the signature->drive.letter mapping is what matters. (Note that if you clone a partition with an offline tool - Windows will notice the duplicate signature and change one of them so that all signatures are unique.)

If you worry about what volume \\.\PhysicalDrive3 maps to you are delving into the black forces that mortals should avoid.
 
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kjohansen

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 19, 2008
101
53
Oregon
I find this puzzling as well.

Windows maps volumes to drive letters via a signature (think of it as a GUID) assigned when the volume is created. You can move the disk around between different ports or slots - but the signature doesn't change and the drive letter therefore doesn't change.

The drive number may change, but the drive number is basically irrelevant at the system and user level - the signature->drive.letter mapping is what matters. (Note that if you clone a partition with an offline tool - Windows will notice the duplicate signature and change one of them so that all signatures are unique.)

If you worry about what volume \\.\PhysicalDrive3 maps to you are delving into the black forces that mortals should avoid.

I found it very puzzling as well, and yes mere mortals should not delve into such matters. But I still rate Win 10 right up there with Win 8 which was a horrible release. By far my favorite Win releases were 2000 and Win 7. Both were great. I never claimed to be Win expert by any means, but I do know Unix very well as I was a Unix Systems Programmer for Intel Corp....
 
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defjam

macrumors 6502a
Sep 15, 2019
795
735
I found it very puzzling as well, and yes mere mortals should not delve into such matters. But I still rate Win 10 right up there with Win 8 which was a horrible release. By far my favorite Win releases were 2000 and Win 7. Both were great. I never claimed to be Win expert by any means, but I do know Unix very well as I was a Unix Systems Programmer for Intel Corp....
Thankfully mere mortals don't have to. Windows is used by over a billion people. Surely you wouldn't argue they're all above average...would you?

As for Windows 8 being a horrible release I believe the general consensus as to what made it a horrible release was not its underlying technology but rather the user interface. Specifically the Start Screen.
 

kjohansen

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 19, 2008
101
53
Oregon
Thankfully mere mortals don't have to. Windows is used by over a billion people. Surely you wouldn't argue they're all above average...would you?

As for Windows 8 being a horrible release I believe the general consensus as to what made it a horrible release was not its underlying technology but rather the user interface. Specifically the Start Screen.

Windows is used by billions because they do not know better.. Bill's OS has always not been the best... And no I would not argue that it is used by billions..
 

Blair Paulsen

macrumors regular
Jun 22, 2016
211
157
San Diego, CA USA
If you could find a group of people with no experience in OSX or Windows, and provided equal amounts of time to get to know each OS, what percentage of users would choose Windows?

For the sake of discussion lets theorize that OSX would be much more popular. Then you tell the group the rest of the story - cost, software catalog, learning curve, virus risk, etc.

At that point, I'd wager that the needs and proclivities of the individual user would emerge as the key driver of an actual purchase decision. For a lot of general computer users, the lower cost of a Windows PC clone would be the key factor - see market share. Moreover, now that many smart phones can do 90% of the tasks that used to be laptop/low end desktop territory will Gen Z even care?

Those of us who make a living with our computers have a different rubric - and some of that cohort is all about Linux anyway, but I digress. I would split this group into two broad categories - power users and IT savvy "nerds" (I mean that as an honorific). As evidenced by several posters on this board, most of the serious techie crowd considers the Apple/OSX offerings overpriced weak sauce.

As a media and entertainment pro who has worked with Windows and OSX for years, I have what might be termed a "power user" perspective. For this cohort, users who need to push a lot of pixels (or ProTools plugins, etc), we need real workstations - but may not be sophisticated computer experts. This is where OSX really shines and Windows with its penchant for updates that upend workflows, can be a huge PITA. Disagree? This forum alone should be proof that the desire for great power without having to be a computer nerd is strong - or the number of old cheese graters still working would be much smaller.
 
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chfilm

macrumors 68040
Nov 15, 2012
3,306
1,987
Berlin
I just hope they won‘t limit preorders to US only „shipping to the Americas“...

Anybody remember when they announced BTO pricing back in 2013? I just remember the trashcan was available on dec 19 and I got mine in the end of February..
 
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Flint Ironstag

macrumors 65816
Dec 1, 2013
1,330
743
Houston, TX USA
As evidenced by several posters on this board, most of the serious techie crowd considers the Apple/OSX offerings overpriced weak sauce.
I'd say for the most part the price : performance ratio is fair if you like the whole ecosystem and packaging. The massive outcry is from the "serious techie crowd" who were expecting a lower entry price for the 7,1.

Would have to agree with the rest of your post.
 

defjam

macrumors 6502a
Sep 15, 2019
795
735
Windows is used by billions because they do not know better.. Bill's OS has always not been the best... And no I would not argue that it is used by billions..
Given that Apple, at least in late 2018, had the fifth highest brand recognition I find it difficult to accept "billions do not know better". However I am willing to look at any data you have supporting that claim.

https://www.macobserver.com/news/apple-logo-brand-study/
 

thevault

Suspended
Feb 11, 2019
235
351
Mars
I just hope they won‘t limit preorders to US only „shipping to the Americas“...

Anybody remember when they announced BTO pricing back in 2013? I just remember the trashcan was available on dec 19 and I got mine in the end of February..

MP7.1 won't be delivered until 2020.....just another ruse. Introduced in June, Order December, ship sometime in 2020. :rolleyes:
 
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thevault

Suspended
Feb 11, 2019
235
351
Mars
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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,309
3,900
MP7.1 won't be delivered until 2020.....just another ruse. Introduced in June, Order December, ship sometime in 2020. :rolleyes:

Context matters. If someone orders are fixed, pre-built configuration it will probably ship before ( if country isn't on some "hold for later" list).

Lots of folks who slid in 2013 into 2014 were in the made 2-3 BTO changes camp. That looks like many will slide this time too.

There was just a dog and pony video show from the factory a couple of days ago. It was obvious that some Mac Pro were being built as the video was shot. The notion that all of those are going to stay locked in a warehouse until 2020 is a farce . That was a Wednesday. There is another 5 working days for a factory before the Thanksgiving break and whatever number of working days in December until Apple starts shipping. They should have many thousands at that point.

The other major factor that inserting in a MPX module is way manually less intensive than torx screwing in the D700's into the thermal core with just the precise amount of torque. No power wires to attach. Just firmly seat in the slot and done. The flow rate for a fixed number of workers for the new Mac Pro 2019 is going to be higher than it was for the 2013. It is just easier to finish assembling once have the base frame and motherboard , and power supply in place.

Again there is video. A couple Mac Pro's were moving from station to station in the span of the dog and pony commentary.

The core issues is that while they will have thousands of Mac Pros at launch there will be thousand customers who want a different configuration than what they have made. that is going to more so going to be the problem. Many of the pre-built ones will go to a different group who won't spend lots of time complaining about not having one.
 
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thevault

Suspended
Feb 11, 2019
235
351
Mars
Context matters. If someone orders are fixed, pre-built configuration it will probably ship before ( if country isn't on some "hold for later" list).

Lots of folks who slid in 2013 into 2014 were in the made 2-3 BTO changes camp. That looks like many will slide this time too.

There was just a dog and pony video show from the factory a couple of days ago. It was obvious that some Mac Pro were being built as the video was shot. The notion that all of those are going to stay locked in a warehouse until 2020 is a farce . That was a Wednesday. There is another 5 working days for a factory before the Thanksgiving break and whatever number of working days in December until Apple starts shipping. They should have many thousands at that point.

The other major factor that inserting in a MPX module is way manually less intensive than torx screwing in the D700's into the thermal core with just the precise amount of torque. No power wires to attach. Just firmly seat in the slot and done. The flow rate for a fixed number of workers for the new Mac Pro 2019 is going to be higher than it was for the 2013. It is just easier to finish assembling once have the base frame and motherboard , and power supply in place.

Again there is video. A couple Mac Pro's were moving from station to station in the span of the dog and pony commentary.


Nice marketing video I'll wait for actual shipping dates.;)
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,309
3,900
Nice marketing video I'll wait for actual shipping dates.;)

It is a dual edged video. It actually makes some of the folks who are impatient feel worse because they now know there is a perfectly good Mac Pro that they could be using now just sitting in a warehouse doing nothing. And that Apple is going to make them wait 2-3 weeks to jump into some 'lotto' of happen to be fastest to click on the buy button to get one within a reasonable amount of time. Agitating those folks is not building back trust that Apple has lost over the last 6 years or so. Apple said it was a 2019 product (so could plan fiscally) and for several of them it is not going to be a 2019 purchase ( which means Apple completely failed to deliver on a promise. So Apple shot giant holes in their plan. ). Apple pissed away the vast majority of 2019. And can't make the configuration the user wants because refuses to ask the user what they do want in 2019 now. ( Instead have to wait for delight and surprise date and even pricing info. ).


But yes it is nice for busting the bubble for the "It is just vapourware" , "it is not coming" BS mongering that is going on now in some discussions bouncing around the Internet. The notion that they are going to miss a December deadline now has about zero truth to it. Even if they didn't have enough to comfortably meet the initial demand bubble demand they could just release what they do have and may 'hay" out of the "Incredible demand from delighted creatives for this new product." (when the scarcity is all of their own making).
 

H. Flower

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2008
723
804
As a media and entertainment pro who has worked with Windows and OSX for years, I have what might be termed a "power user" perspective. For this cohort, users who need to push a lot of pixels (or ProTools plugins, etc), we need real workstations - but may not be sophisticated computer experts. This is where OSX really shines and Windows with its penchant for updates that upend workflows, can be a huge PITA. Disagree? This forum alone should be proof that the desire for great power without having to be a computer nerd is strong - or the number of old cheese graters still working would be much smaller.

You're dead on. The Mac and MacBook Pro teams should, everyday, kiss the feet of the Mac OS department (Catalina problems non-withstanding), and at the same time thank their lucky stars a competitive OS still hasn't been created.

Otherwise, the team wouldn't exist, as their customers wouldn't/
[automerge]1574456515[/automerge]
It is a dual edged video. It actually makes some of the folks who are impatient feel worse because they now know there is a perfectly good Mac Pro that they could be using now just sitting in a warehouse doing nothing. And that Apple is going to make them wait 2-3 weeks to jump into some 'lotto' of happen to be fastest to click on the buy button to get one within a reasonable amount of time. Agitating those folks is not building back trust that Apple has lost over the last 6 years or so. Apple said it was a 2019 product (so could plan fiscally) and for several of them it is not going to be a 2019 purchase ( which means Apple completely failed to deliver on a promise. So Apple shot giant holes in their plan. ). Apple pissed away the vast majority of 2019. And can't make the configuration the user wants because refuses to ask the user what they do want in 2019 now. ( Instead have to wait for delight and surprise date and even pricing info. ).

The uneasy feeling I've had for the last 6 years that Apple doesn't give a sh*t about pros.....the feeling that was briefly subsided over the Summer, is now back, with this "race-to-be-last" nonsense they're pulling.
 
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chfilm

macrumors 68040
Nov 15, 2012
3,306
1,987
Berlin
So , maybe a couple weeks more in limbo.

That gives them time to still maybe get a few units in peoples' hands before the end of the year, ship the rest in 2020, and then Cook’s pro team can go back to sleep for a few years.
It gives my clients time to pay me so I can afford the beast :D
 
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