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HeadphoneAddict

macrumors 65816
Sep 16, 2007
1,041
888
Two questions from a non-expert: How do you measure these gains/losses? Why do all your watches gain time except one which loses?

I use WatchTracker app for iOS to compare the time I that see on the dial to the atomic time that the app gets over the internet. I tap the screen when the watch has the same time as one pre-selected on the screen, then the app compares my result with the atomic clock. It keeps data points that can be exported if desired. It puts the gains or losses into a nice graph for you.

Swiss Chronometer standards or COSC wants watches to stay within -2 sec/day to +6 sec/day on average for the day, and that is with a certain amount of spread between slowest and fastest rate between all 6 positions (or 5 positions). It could still run -4 sec/day in a certain position but +8 sec/day in another position, as long as they average out to be within that spec, which in this case might end up being +4 sec/day. They could equal each other out, so that the watch gains 0 sec/day. With the spread from slowest to fastest, for instance, there should not be more than a 12-16 second spread in rates between positions (depending on whether full wind or not) from slowest rate in one position like dial up, and the fastest rate seen with it in another position, such as crown right.

Seiko with some models, like Seiko 5 and SKX models, will specify as much as +/- 20 or 30 sec/day as being okay, while with other models they try to keep them closer to atomic time. All of my Seiko Turtle watches are running within a few seconds a day (single digits).

But Omega and Rolex have the METAS standard or Superlative Chronometer Standard which exceed COSC standards, to be even more accurate. Rolex tries to keep watches between -2 to +2 sec/day. Omega used to be okay with -1 to +6 sec/day, but but now shoots for +0 to +5 sec/day except for the Moonwatch which is an older design and can be okay anywhere between -11 to +11 sec/day.

When I have a watch serviced I ask my watchmaker to run the watch on his Orbita winder for a couple of days and adjust it to get the watch to be closer to +1 to +2 sec/day of possible. If they gain time then I'm never behind and not late fo r things. But, I'd rather lose 2 sec/day than gain 6 sec/day. That's the difference between 1 minute off a month and 3 minutes off.

My Rolex Pepsi GMT II runs anywhere from -1.4 sec/day to +1.2 sec/day on average when checking the timekeeping about 2x a day, but on average in a 16 day period it gained only 1.5 seconds (3 sec/month). Click pics to enlarge.

When I set the watch I used a digital clock with no second hand, so I was 29 seconds fast, but it never dropped below 28 seconds fast to 30.5 seconds fast, only wandering around up and down about 1.5 seconds that whole time.

IMG_6734.png
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It's funny, because he hasn't actually successfully refuted anything I have said. Seiko has a solid entry in literally every level of watchmaking from the $100 quartz diver to the Grand Seiko Snowflake. No one else does that.

You keep changing your qualifications. I'm not going to try to hit a moving target.

You only just now brought up Grand Seiko, which has incredible levels of finish on the case, bezel, dial and hands, but skimps a little bit on the movement finish vs Omega and Rolex.
 
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lixuelai

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2008
959
329
Nice set of Rolexes.

But my favourite is the green Sea-Gull (?) at the top right. :)

Got a close-up of it?

Haha its a great watch. I am an expat working in HK and its gotten a lot of compliments when I'm working in China.

Very nice collection, and thanks for sharing.

I quite like the Ulysse Nardin.

It's got a great GMT complication. Button pushers and can adjust date both forward and backwards. I got the ETA based version, much cheaper than the later in-house one.
 

Expos of 1969

Contributor
Aug 25, 2013
4,741
9,257
I use WatchTracker app for iOS to compare the time I that see on the dial to the atomic time that the app gets over the internet. I tap the screen when the watch has the same time as one pre-selected on the screen, then the app compares my result with the atomic clock. It keeps data points that can be exported if desired. It puts the gains or losses into a nice graph for you.

Swiss Chronometer standards or COSC wants watches to stay within -2 sec/day to +6 sec/day on average for the day, and that is with a certain amount of spread between slowest and fastest rate between all 6 positions (or 5 positions). It could still run -4 sec/day in a certain position but +8 sec/day in another position, as long as they average out to be within that spec, which in this case might end up being +4 sec/day. They could equal each other out, so that the watch gains 0 sec/day. With the spread from slowest to fastest, for instance, there should not be more than a 12-16 second spread in rates between positions (depending on whether full wind or not) from slowest rate in one position like dial up, and the fastest rate seen with it in another position, such as crown right.

Seiko with some models, like Seiko 5 and SKX models, will specify as much as +/- 20 or 30 sec/day as being okay, while with other models they try to keep them closer to atomic time. All of my Seiko Turtle watches are running within a few seconds a day (single digits).

But Omega and Rolex have the METAS standard or Superlative Chronometer Standard which exceed COSC standards, to be even more accurate. Rolex tries to keep watches between -2 to +2 sec/day. Omega used to be okay with -1 to +6 sec/day, but but now shoots for +0 to +5 sec/day except for the Moonwatch which is an older design and can be okay anywhere between -11 to +11 sec/day.

When I have a watch serviced I ask my watchmaker to run the watch on his Orbita winder for a couple of days and adjust it to get the watch to be closer to +1 to +2 sec/day of possible. If they gain time then I'm never behind and not late fo r things. But, I'd rather lose 2 sec/day than gain 6 sec/day. That's the difference between 1 minute off a month and 3 minutes off.

My Rolex Pepsi GMT II runs anywhere from -1.4 sec/day to +1.2 sec/day on average when checking the timekeeping about 2x a day, but on average in a 16 day period it gained only 1.5 seconds (3 sec/month). Click pics to enlarge.

When I set the watch I used a digital clock with no second hand, so I was 29 seconds fast, but it never dropped below 28 seconds fast to 30.5 seconds fast, only wandering around up and down about 1.5 seconds that whole time.

View attachment 931242
View attachment 931243

Thanks very much for the informative explanation. Very interesting.
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,686
10,518
Austin, TX
Second for WatchTracker. My collection is currently two but it's super convenient to collect both.

The Omega is solid at about -1 to +2 per day. The Khaki Field Mechanical is a kind of all over the place but it is a hand wind using a modified mid range ETA.
[automerge]1594399975[/automerge]
Hey y'all, this is a good discussion, but I think we're better served making this thread for pictures and creating a new thread for watches

 
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AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,686
10,518
Austin, TX
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
64,140
46,582
In a coffee shop.
Partly because I have poor eyesight, and partly because digital photography is still somewhat alien to me, and also partly because some photographs taken and posted lack detailed resolution, and also, more relevantly, also lack a descriptive paragraph telling me what I am supposed to be able to see, I am not a massive fan of some of the pic threads.

Even on the beer one, I cannot always read the brand on the label, (if the post lacks an accompanying descriptive explanation) even though the beverage pictured will invariably look inviting, mouth watering, and perfectly delightful.

Thus, the idea of such a thread appeals to me, and let those who wish to post pictures feel free to do so.
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
Ooooh, I have a whole drawer full of mechanical watches I seemingly never wear enough that I would be interested in discussing. The Apple Watch has primarily taken that role. I would never part with my mechanical watches simply because of how much I actually enjoy wearing them for different occasions.

[Also, there is a thread in the Apple Watch forum that has mechanical watch comparisons as well, coupled with Apple Watch pics, some decent photos from regular members.]
 
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AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,686
10,518
Austin, TX
Ooooh, I have a whole drawer full of mechanical watches I seemingly never wear enough that I would be interested in discussing. The Apple Watch has primarily taken that role. I would never part with my mechanical watches simply because of how much I actually enjoy wearing them for different occasions.

[Also, there is a thread in the Apple Watch forum that has mechanical watch comparisons as well, coupled with Apple Watch pics, some decent photos from regular members.]
I get that. For me, there are places Apple Watch just doesn't work. For example, I wouldn't wear an Apple Watch at any event that is more than business casual.

Of course, I wear my Seamaster pretty much every day these days.
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
I get that. For me, there are places Apple Watch just doesn't work. For example, I wouldn't wear an Apple Watch at any event that is more than business casual.

Of course, I wear my Seamaster pretty much every day these days.

Don’t ask me why, but this is how I’ve been doing it, the Apple Watch stainless is worn during like the warmer/summer months and once fall-winter arrives, I’ll gravitate towards my automatics (Huge fan of Polo autos, Omega), Which I’ve grown fond of stainless versus leather, as I just like the weight on the wrist, which seems like leather has a significant break in with stiffness, being they really aren’t worn all that often.

Just on a quick sidenote, I really would like to see a band like Apples stainless link band with the butterfly clasp. Ridiculously thin, lightweight and yet elegant enough where it’s perfect for any occasion. (The black stainless link band has the DLC {Diamond Like Carbon coating}, which is amazingly durable against scratches/scuffs.

The Watch that I really want, was the one that Ryan Reynolds was wearing in the movie ‘Selfless’ (So-so film BTW), it’s a Panerai Luminor Marina 351:

35F3A0F5-E95E-47D8-B2D9-B90E80FAC131.jpeg

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Looks like Rolex is going to release a 2020 watch after all. Maybe a new sub?


Even if they do, I’m curious how anyone would be able to get their hands on one, given how prices exponentially increased for the Submariner. You should see the prices on eBay, mind-blowing.
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
64,140
46,582
In a coffee shop.
Rolex on eBay is crazy.

I agree on the Panerai. They're like the Porsche of watches. I want to not like them but they are gorgeous.

Wouldn't trust eBay for serious watches; instead, I'd recommend that you (or anyone) buy from a reputable (and authorised) dealer.

Many will have, or stock, previously owned watches for sale, (they might have been trade ins, or part exchanges, for example), and the provenance will be guaranteed.

Personally, Panerai don't really do it, for me; they are too large, for one thing, although I fully accept that massive watches are the current fashion.
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,686
10,518
Austin, TX
Wouldn't trust eBay for serious watches; instead, I'd recommend that you (or anyone) buy from a reputable (and authorised) dealer.

Many will have, or stock, previously owned watches for sale, (they might have been trade ins, or part exchanges, for example), and the provenance will be guaranteed.

Personally, Panerai don't really do it, for me; they are too large, for one thing, although I fully accept that massive watches are the current fashion.
There is an eBay authenticity program but I only use chrono24 and Find the best verified dealer price
 
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AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,686
10,518
Austin, TX
I’ve never really liked Panerai either I must be honest. They are also way too big for my wrists. I prefer watches with less bulk.
That's definitely true. I find myself absolutely loving my Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanical because of how unobtrusive it is. My Seamaster is as bulky as I would ever use and one of the reason a Planet Ocean is not in my future
 

HeadphoneAddict

macrumors 65816
Sep 16, 2007
1,041
888
That's definitely true. I find myself absolutely loving my Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanical because of how unobtrusive it is. My Seamaster is as bulky as I would ever use and one of the reason a Planet Ocean is not in my future

You might change your mind with the older Planet Ocean 2500, like the Planet Ocean Liquid Metal Limited Edition, or any of them with the newer 2500D movement (made after 2011 I think). I prefer the POLMLE and love mine - it looks more elegant than the current Planet Ocean, but thinner and lighter, with a similar ceramic dial and liquid metal bezel.

The POLMLE was where Omega experimented with ceramics and liquid metal for dial and bezels, and the first to have blue lume on the dial and bezel and hands.

The only way I can tolerate my Planet Ocean 8500 or Planet Ocean 9300 is because they are made out of Grade 5 Titanium and weigh about what a Seamaster Pro would weigh, while having that beautiful slight grey tone of Ti combined with the blue glossy dial and blue liquid metal bezel. All of the above were the precursor to the current models, but with the advantage of less weight and better wearability, with very good looks due to the glossy dial and liquid metal bezels.

I don't like the "dotted bezel" that has dashes goe all the way around the current model, and I didn't like the old aluminums bezels either, except maybe orange - I bought an orange bezel for Planet Ocean 2500 and 8500 before they became impossible to buy, just in case I ever buy the watch in black LOL. I guess I could install the orange 8500 bezel on my Blue Ti watch and be a Broncos fan, or put the orange 2500 bezel on my POLMLE for a change in color (I have the tools and spare click springs).
 
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AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,686
10,518
Austin, TX
I'm lazy for scrolling threw the whole thread but what do you think about Hardlex glass? Some Seiko watches are sweet (and not pricy) but I'm afraid of scratching.
Whatever the brand, mineral glass is something I think I would avoid if sapphire is available. Overall, it's fine, but I would pay the extra money to get the sapphire crystal.

But you see a ton of vintage Speedmasters with the mineral crystal scratched to hell. I don't currently own a Speedmaster but I'll get the Sapphire sandwich.
 

CooperBox

macrumors 68000
Whatever the brand, mineral glass is something I think I would avoid if sapphire is available. Overall, it's fine, but I would pay the extra money to get the sapphire crystal.

But you see a ton of vintage Speedmasters with the mineral crystal scratched to hell. I don't currently own a Speedmaster but I'll get the Sapphire sandwich.
I like to purchase a watch inside-out. I.e First by checking out if the movement is well-proven, then if the case, the watch face and the watch in general looks pleasing, subject to my butget I'll buy it - regardless of whether it has mineral glass or not.
Believe me you are passing by a number of fine, highly regarded watches by disregarding Hardlex or other mineral crystals. And a clear vinyl cut to size will protect any crystal for those who fear scratches.
 
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