There really is no where else to go to get a phone as small or smaller than the 12/13mini.
Sony was THE last manufacturer of smartphones to have any sort of 'Compact' lineup. Its been 4yrs since Sony's last Xperia Compact model.
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iPhone SE (2016) Will Apple ever make another small phone?
- Thread starter Crystal21
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Sony was THE last manufacturer of smartphones to have any sort of 'Compact' lineup. Its been 4yrs since Sony's last Xperia Compact model.
The 12 mini sold as well as the SE 2020. Except one product is 2 months old and the other 9 months old. Engineering costs probably differ by an order of magnitude. Basically, the 12 mini has no selling longevity.
Yes, the margins on the 12 mini will be higher. But it doesn't help if the units sold is so low.
![iphone-12-mini-counterpoint-jan-sales.png]()
You're reasoning doesn't add up.
So ...
1. higher margins on 12 mini than the iPhone SE 20202.
2. the 12 mini makes more money/profits per unit sold than the iPhone SE 2020.
BUT you're ready to keep the iPhone SE 2020 but not the 12 mini or 13 mini onward?
What where the initial sales numbers in the same time frame as either the 12 or 13 mini? THAT is the real part of the pudding were Apple bean-counters will be looking at.
No you don't need to re-design cases.
Sony was the first company to place a fingerprint reader on power button for their Xperia line-up, the only reason for a case change is if the button became a different size and/or location.
Either you pickup/hold the phone in either hand.
example: I'm right-handed but tend to pickup the phone with my left hand = means my left thumb on iPhone would be first to touch the sleep/wake/power button. Once held in hand, my left hand, I'd have my index finger rest near the sleep/wake/power button. If in my right-hand the phone will have my right thumb on the power button.
easy as I dont' have muscular or control difficulties (not being snide about that being true as some has some movement disabilities).
Higher margins don't mean as much as total sales volume. A big number of low margin SE will outperform a small number of high margin 12 mini sold.
As of September 1, 2021:
- 1.75% iPhone 12 mini
- 4.15% iPhone SE2
Based on publicly available numbers, the SE2 margins are roughly $200 while the 12 mini is about $350.
Multiply the above and it's clear SE wins the total margins game by far.
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Not everyone is as fortunate. Be grateful.
Did you know that Apple has a department devoted to accessibility? They take it seriously.
Why should apple make a small phone y’all didn’t buy them and Apple is a business.
I’ve already previously stated volume doesn’t equal profitsHigher margins don't mean as much as total sales volume. A big number of low margin SE will outperform a small number of high margin 12 mini sold.
As of September 1, 2021:
- 1.75% iPhone 12 mini
- 4.15% iPhone SE2
Based on publicly available numbers, the SE2 margins are roughly $200 while the 12 mini is about $350.
Multiply the above and it's clear SE wins the total margins game by far.
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Unit per unit
The iPhone 12 Mini makes Apple more than the SE 2020.
I specifically asked total sales in the same “time frame” as the SE.
Your modeling doesn’t fully define this visibly I have no clear view of that is compunges sales up to September 1, 2021 and* you didn’t state your source for anyone to verify.
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Please re-read what I stated.
I’ve known since 1988 Apple has an accessibility team even actively engaging those in various communities ~ Quad something was amazingly featured in how Apples HomeKit works and I loved it (search my posts).
I was specifically stating that I can pickup an iPhone abs there is no complexity on placement of Touch ID on the sleep/wake/power button as someone stated without any form of reference as to why it’s not ideal.
My reply was to show, that being “able bodied” can use such an implementation for reference. In my post I clearly stated that those not able bodied would May not be as easily able to manipulate an iPhone with Touch ID on the power button as I demonstrated as my example.
You’re debating the wrong guy here. I am very grateful every day and I’ve learned that lesson over 27yrs ago through the beauty of seeing my world through someone born blind and chose to show up at our grade school enriching my classmates lives. I’m sure I posted this in another thread long ago as well. I’m chill just please try to understand my post before thinking I don’t know something.
Cheers.
Because you can compare embedded, single purpose software to an OS with millions of lines of code...
Remember the old Mac vs Windows stability debate. Folks always forgot that Apple controlled ALL the hardware whereas MS needed to be flexible And most crashes were due to the 3rd party drivers.
The larger and more flexible a pice of software is, the more prone to bugs it is.
Mask wearing, sure. Dark rooms? I often grab my phone in the middle of the night and it has never failed.
I recently upgraded my wife's 6S to a 12 mini. Her first reaction? "You mean i don't have to enter my PIN all the time anymore". she could never use TouchID. heck, when we got our Nexus cards, CBP could not read her fingerprints at all.
Higher margins don't mean as much as total sales volume. A big number of low margin SE will outperform a small number of high margin 12 mini sold.
As of September 1, 2021:
- 1.75% iPhone 12 mini
- 4.15% iPhone SE2
Based on publicly available numbers, the SE2 margins are roughly $200 while the 12 mini is about $350.
Multiply the above and it's clear SE wins the total margins game by far.
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I think there are some other factors. The SE 2 was an existing form factor, with an existing (albeit relatively new) chip. It was an "S" design on steroids: battle-tested, extremely familiar. The 12 mini was a brand new form factor, and that turned out to have battery issues. The real test will be to compare the SE 2 against the 13 mini, which is the second year of this form factor. The SE 2 may be ahead of the 12 mini, but Apple may consider the future curve of the SE 2 to be flat or dropping (the same thing happened to the SE 1, if I recall correctly: initial sales were surprisingly good, but dropped off quickly; the market for the SE 1 was comparatively small).
Apple will also know its technology roadmap, and will likely know how quickly the SE will fall too far behind the other models in terms of what that form factor can do.
I never had an issue with Touch ID but that’s because my fingerprints are very readable. My dad has barely any fingerprints so he can’t use Touch ID either.
The Face ID strangely works in darkness for me but struggles in low light. I don’t know if that’s normal but it’s a weird problem to have. I guess you can also say that Face ID works great when it’s wet whereas Touch ID doesn’t work at all.
I've never had a problem with Touch ID. Sure, maybe a few times with a wet finger, a known issue. I've otherwise found it to be completely reliable.
I've found Face ID to also be reliable within its operating parameters. It recognizes my face, only when my eyes are open and when I'm looking at the screen. It works in the dark. I've got an Apple Watch, so for simple unlocking it works with a mask on currently (though that will be more usable once 15.4 comes out), though not with sunglasses.
What I don't like is that I found Touch ID more naturally usable than Face ID. I am a diabetic, and it's normal for me to have my phone set to display my blood sugar when I'm in bed reading at the end of the day. To get to that data, with Touch ID, it was pick up the phone (at any angle), press the home button and leave my thumb there. Now, I need to touch the screen (I habitually leave "raise to wake" off), raise the phone to an angle where it can see my face (which is a very wide angle, but it does have limits), and then swipe up to see the screen.
This dynamic is at work as well for other unlock situations. It really makes a difference for Apple Pay, which was simplicity itself with Touch ID (hold phone to terminal, place thumb on home button), and is more of a PITA with Face ID (double-press the side button, hold the phone so it can see your face, then place to terminal). Part of that is the double-press: I find it unnatural to do it without accidentally taking a screen shot. Even taking for granted that muscle memory will someday overcome this, I think this is still significantly worse. So much so that I now do Apple Pay with my Apple Watch instead. Not because I found it a more efficient or satisfying way to do it than Touch ID, but moreso than Face ID.
There is one class of interaction where Face ID is definitely better than Touch ID: authenticating inside an app. In those situations, however, I'm already interacting with the app, and so already looking at the screen. It's seamless at that point because I don't have to transition to that position, I'm already there by nature of what I'm doing. This doesn't help with in-app purchases or any other interaction with Apple for purchasing, because that requires the side button.
I am slowly getting used to some of this on my iPhone 13 mini. I got the mini so I could get the (much) better camera than on the SE 2020. I don't expect the rumored SE 2022 to have better cameras than the 2020. So I'm calling my switch to the 13 mini a wash, so far:
MINI vs. SE 2020:
Cameras ++
Size +
Battery ++
Screen size - or even
Apple Pay - -
Face ID/no home button - -
It's close enough that depending on the specs of the SE 2022, I would consider going back to it.
I don't believe the shortcomings of Face ID are fixed with an under-screen fingerprint reader. Much if not most if not all of the benefit of Touch ID over Face ID is the presence of the home button, a physical landmark I can find without looking at the phone.
Just because you state it, doesn't mean it's true.
Manufacturers like Oppo, Vivo, Xiaomi rely on this business model to get 25% of the global market share and thrive.
At the end of the day, actions speaks louder than words. If the iPhone 12 mini were profitable as much as SE, Apple would have kept it alongside SE.
Feel free to play around with data, it's all there.
I agree the 12 mini has a battery handicap and that's directly related to the form factor. If you want something small and thin-bezel, there will be compromises. While the 13 mini has a 10% improvement in battery life, it's not life changing and I don't think it's enough to change consumer preferences.
I've mentioned this before: iOS and consumer preferences are clearly moving towards big screens. People simply want to do more multitasking and scroll less with their handheld computers. Small displays are a big handicap.
It doesn't matter how many times you've said it. The majority of the market is for the mid-sized phone, followed by the big phone, then the Mini/SE. Pick a quarter — any quarter in recent years and look up the numbers. Here is Q1 2021:
Top 10 best-selling models’ list for Q1 2021
In 2021, the 12 Pro Max may have been the single best selling model but the 12, 12 Pro and 11 combined outsold it 2:1. It's hard to find anyone besides Counterpoint research that distinguishes among the various iPhone models but the info is out there if you look for it. The 13 Max rose to 23% of the 13 market — in China but the 13 (51%) and 13 Pro (21%) doesn't bear out your theory.
iPhone 13 line China stats
The 7+ was released 5 1/2 years ago. The trends are clear. I'm not the only consumer who tried the big iPhone and swore never again.
Back on topic. Combined Mini/SE sales continue to disappoint but are still around 5% of Apple's global market – and getting bigger in China and India. The SE 3, or whatever Apple calls it, is expected to be announced next week and the Mini will become redundant in its wake. Whether Apple splits the small iPhone line again is something we'll just have to see over the next few years. All the crystal ball gazing won't change that.
Apple's 6.7-inch iPhone is only available as the most expensive product. So of course the 6.1-inch product family will outsell it. Apple's strategy is changing this year by adding a mainstream 6.7-inch product.
The largest smartphone market in the world is in China and even the low-end "SE" $349 products have 6.43-inch display. It's not me that's saying this, it's the entire smartphone industry.
