Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

dotnet

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,600
1,291
Sydney, Australia
How about the suffix "ish" ?
Sure I can understand it in certain situations (i.e. words), but definitely not in expressions like "a year and a half -ish ago".

I can understand that new language variations annoy people, but that’s just how language evolves. New forms pop up out of necessity, convenience, contact with other languages, etc., and are then subjected to the rigours of natural selection. Those that turn out to be useful and in harmony with the natural idiom of the language will stick around, the rest die out. All words, grammatical forms and idioms in the dictionary came about like that.
 

chown33

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2009
10,751
8,425
A sea of green
How about the suffix "ish" ?
Sure I can understand it in certain situations (i.e. words), but definitely not in expressions like "a year and a half -ish ago".
Sesqui-annual-ish. Prefixes FTW.

EDIT - CORRECTION
Following the pattern of "biennial", "triennial", etc. I think the real form should be "sesquiennial".
I expect to see this in Urban Dictionary soonish.
 
Last edited:

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
64,023
46,467
In a coffee shop.
Another linguistic horror that I encountered yesterday on a well-known - nay, notorious - social media platform, was the weird verb "unsuspended".

What is wrong with using "the suspension was lifted", or "the suspension was raised", instead?
 

dotnet

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,600
1,291
Sydney, Australia
Another linguistic horror that I encountered yesterday on a well-known - nay, notorious - social media platform, was the weird verb "unsuspended".

I suspect it was used as an adjective. The participle “suspended” morphed into an adjective describing a state long ago, it is only logical for the speech centre to create an antonym, in case the opposite of that state needs to be expressed. That’s just how the speech centre works 🙂

What is wrong with using "the suspension was lifted", or "the suspension was raised", instead?

Nothing, it is less economical and more beautiful (for now).

Now, how about “ununravellable”, for “impossible to unravel”? (Big Bang Theory) 😆
 

RRC

macrumors 65816
Nov 3, 2020
1,478
2,326
When people get the phrase "Couldn't care less" wrong.

Seems to be a more recent thing with people saying they "Could care less" which is the exact opposite of what they are trying to actually say...
 

DaveFromCampbelltown

macrumors 68000
Jun 24, 2020
1,544
2,509
Another linguistic horror that I encountered yesterday on a well-known - nay, notorious - social media platform, was the weird verb "unsuspended".

What is wrong with using "the suspension was lifted", or "the suspension was raised", instead?

"Unsuspended". Is that when the cable holding up the wrecking ball is severed? And should I duck?
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
64,023
46,467
In a coffee shop.
I suspect it was used as an adjective.
Actually, unfortunately, it was used as a verb.

The sentence read: "We unsuspended the account as soon as we became aware of the error...."
The participle “suspended” morphed into an adjective describing a state long ago, it is only logical for the speech centre to create an antonym, in case the opposite of that state needs to be expressed. That’s just how the speech centre works 🙂
Not in the example I cited.
Now, how about “ununravellable”, for “impossible to unravel”? (Big Bang Theory) 😆
Dreadful. Awful. Actually, excruciating.

In any case, it is not necessary for scientists - or economists, for that matter - to be so functionally illiterate; science, tech, economics, are not - or need not be - the enemy of an elegant (and grammatically correct) sentence.

The written word does not need to be mangled, minced and massacred in order to explain what is happening in your area of (scientific, or technological) expertise.
 

dotnet

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,600
1,291
Sydney, Australia
Dreadful. Awful. Actually, excruciating.

To be fair, it was used for comedic effect.

In any case, it is not necessary for scientists - or economists, for that matter - to be so functionally illiterate; science, tech, economics, are not - or need not be - the enemy of an elegant (and grammatically correct) sentence.

The written word does not need to be mangled, minced and massacred in order to explain what is happening in your area of (scientific, or technological) expertise.

Professional jargons exist for a reason. Prose would not be a suitable style in many cases. When you write prose, you’re telling a story. You want to draw the readers into your story, you want them to immerse themselves in it. Language full of pictures, ambiguity and associations is called for.

Not so when drafting a contract. You need to be explicit and precise, and avoid any trace of ambiguity to prevent your contract partners from exploiting it. You’re going to spend considerable page space on defining the words you intend to use in the text.

Likewise with technical documentation. The readers will not want to relive your adventure of building the gadget, they’re looking for factual information about it.

All three styles of writing will be grammatically correct, but they will be very different. In short, know your audience and tailor your writing style to them.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
64,023
46,467
In a coffee shop.
To be fair, it was used for comedic effect.
Well, humour is both subjective and culturally specific.
Professional jargons exist for a reason. Prose would not be a suitable style in many cases. When you write prose, you’re telling a story. You want to draw the readers into your story, you want them to immerse themselves in it. Language full of pictures, ambiguity and associations is called for.
Yes, but.....

This is an area where I would draw a clear distinction between a "professional vocabulary" (which I have absolutely no quarrel with - in fact, it is necessary), and "professional jargon".

The former serves to supply a subject matter, or, an area of expertise, a profession, with a specific set of words - a vocabulary - with which to describe that world (maritime vocabulary, which is both specific and precise, and has found its way into aviation and space, offers an excellent example, as, indeed, do both medicine and law, and any other profession, music, etc).

On the other hand, "professional jargon" exists for a different reason; it may serve as a useful short-hand for those who work within the profession (who can be expected to have mastered it) when they wish to discuss something orally or, in writing.

However, it serves - or, can be made to serve - to confuse and obfuscate (and, unfortunately, is often deliberately used in this way), and is also - or, rather, can be also - used to make those who are not familiar with this vocabulary feel inadequate and ignorant, and uninformed, as a consequence.

Unfortunately, the world of business is especially prone to this sort of self-indulgent nonsense, where language, instead of providing clarity, is used to distort and disguise and mask.

Sometimes, to my mind, (especially in some of the social sciences), there seems to me to be an element of wishing to make the subject matter appear more elevated (through the use of jargon) than it actually is, in order to persuade people that this field of study is somehow serious, and worthy of the respect bestowed on the physical sciences.

Now, to my mind, it is perfectly possible to write about law, or science, - describing what needs to be described - in clear, elegant, prose - the very best legal judgments manage to achieve this, rendering the judgment in clear, crystal, comprehensible yet elegant prose - without seeking refuge or recourse in impenetrable jargon.
Not so when drafting a contract. You need to be explicit and precise, and avoid any trace of ambiguity to prevent your contract partners from exploiting it. You’re going to spend considerable page space on defining the words you intend to use in the text.
You need to be explicit and precise, agreed, in law, medicine and diplomacy.

However, the language allows for that, and equips one with the necessary words with which to achieve these goals.

English is a language with an exceptionally extensive - yet exquisitely precise - vocabulary, which is well up to the task of describing, or expressing, whatever is needed, in words.

Nevertheless, you do not need to be impenetrable, still less use the fact of the impenetrability as an excuse not to have to explain what you are doing in terms that your interlocutor can understand.

Language (and prose, for that matter) need not be the enemy of clarity of expression.
Likewise with technical documentation. The readers will not want to relive your adventure of building the gadget, they’re looking for factual information about it.
Factual information that they can understand, and apply, as needed.

Notwithstanding all of that, I remain baffled that so much of the literature of science, technology, appears to prefer not to have to take greater pains to be comprehensible to a wider audience.
All three styles of writing will be grammatically correct, but they will be very different. In short, know your audience and tailor your writing style to them.
Yes, this is true.
 

dotnet

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,600
1,291
Sydney, Australia
On the other hand, "professional jargon" exists for a different reason; it may serve as a useful short-hand for those who work within the profession (who can be expected to have mastered it) when they wish to discuss something orally or, in writing.

However, it serves - or, can be made to serve - to confuse and obfuscate (and, unfortunately, is often deliberately used in this way), and is also - or, rather, can be also - used to make those who are not familiar with this vocabulary feel inadequate and ignorant, and uninformed, as a consequence.

I think it depends on the profession or the professional. Obfuscation is obviously the name of the game in politics and marketing. In business presentations other than marketing you often find obfuscation where there is no actual content, i.e. when someone is required to make a lot of words about nothing.

A paper about a subject matter in mathematics or natural science doesn’t contain obfuscation or confusing language, neither does a technical repair manual. It may not be easy to understand by anyone outside the field, but that’s not due to the quality of the language. It simply means, the poor reader wasn’t the intended audience.

Unfortunately, the world of business is especially prone to this sort of self-indulgent nonsense, where language, instead of providing clarity, is used to distort and disguise and mask.

Yes, where the latter is called for (in marketing, politics etc.) language provides ample tools for it. That would still constitute correct use of language, albeit for the wrong reason or purpose.

Sometimes, to my mind, (especially in some of the social sciences), there seems to me to be an element of wishing to make the subject matter appear more elevated (through the use of jargon) than it actually is, in order to persuade people that this field of study is somehow serious, and worthy of the respect bestowed on the physical sciences.

Yes, this is very common. Motivated use of language, slipping into someone else’s lab coat, so to speak, usually ends up embarrassing the speaker or writer. It’s another form of a cargo cult.

Now, to my mind, it is perfectly possible to write about law, or science, - describing what needs to be described - in clear, elegant, prose - the very best legal judgments manage to achieve this, rendering the judgment in clear, crystal, comprehensible yet elegant prose - without seeking refuge or recourse in impenetrable jargon.

There is a difference between arguing law among lawyers and writing about law. Same for science etc.

You need to make sure that you and your readers speak the same language. If a legal document is (also) addressed to the general public, like terms and conditions for example, the language needs to be plain and free from legal jargon.

Language (and prose, for that matter) need not be the enemy of clarity of expression.

Well, prose can be, because it is meant to convey emotion much more so than facts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chuckeee

bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
15,735
1,907
Lard
To be fair, it was used for comedic effect.



Professional jargons exist for a reason. Prose would not be a suitable style in many cases. When you write prose, you’re telling a story. You want to draw the readers into your story, you want them to immerse themselves in it. Language full of pictures, ambiguity and associations is called for.

Not so when drafting a contract. You need to be explicit and precise, and avoid any trace of ambiguity to prevent your contract partners from exploiting it. You’re going to spend considerable page space on defining the words you intend to use in the text.

Likewise with technical documentation. The readers will not want to relive your adventure of building the gadget, they’re looking for factual information about it.

All three styles of writing will be grammatically correct, but they will be very different. In short, know your audience and tailor your writing style to them.
Back in 1990, I was working for a small software house and was on a team creating a cross-platform insurance and retirement suite. In 1990, client-server technology was barely working and there was no 32-bit Windows. I was working on the bigger machine that could host thousands of users, so the marketing vice president asked me to write a "White Paper" to explain what we were doing.

A few weeks after the vice president of the insurance company had read it, they sent me a copy where he had mustered all the technical jargon and/or gobbledegook and wrote all over the document. Most of what he wrote had nothing to do with anything, but it was amusing, especially since he seemed less informed than most of my non-technical managers over the years.

I made some modifications but I'm sure nothing could stand up to his meager understanding of technology. I was wondering how many assistants he replaced every year.
 

Mousse

macrumors 68040
Apr 7, 2008
3,497
6,720
Flea Bottom, King's Landing
I suspect it was used as an adjective. The participle “suspended” morphed into an adjective describing a state long ago, it is only logical for the speech centre to create an antonym, in case the opposite of that state needs to be expressed. That’s just how the speech centre works 🙂
Moreover, in this instance, the one word is ugly and clunky, and an insult to language and grammar.
I would have used "reinstated" instead of "unsuspended." The former has a storied history of being useful. The latter sounds like a soulless, Orwellian construct, double plus ungood.😐
 
  • Like
Reactions: dotnet and Chuckeee

dotnet

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,600
1,291
Sydney, Australia
In 1990, client-server technology was barely working and there was no 32-bit Windows.

I’m not making a point on language use, but I’d like to point out that in 1990 client-server technology had been thriving for over 10 years. Outside the Microsoft world, that is, where you still had to use shareware like Trumpet WinSock in order to get a TCP/IP stack onto your Windows PC.
 

dotnet

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,600
1,291
Sydney, Australia
I would have used "reinstated" instead of "unsuspended."

Quite right. If you understand the state of being suspended as the result of the process of suspension (as most people do), then “reinstated” is the perfect invocation of the reversal of that process. It feels far more sensual and less abstract.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: decafjava

bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
15,735
1,907
Lard
I’m not making a point on language use, but I’d like to point out that in 1990 client-server technology had been thriving for over 10 years. Outside the Microsoft world, that is, where you still had to use shareware like Trumpet WinSock in order to get a TCP/IP stack onto your Windows PC.
Really? There wasn't an IBM PC in 1980. There wasn't a Macintosh in 1980.

Are you talking about mainframes/midrange machines and dumb terminals?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.