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sigomez

macrumors 6502
Jul 21, 2009
335
144
Houston, TX
The laptop has a Thunderbolt controller that connects to the Thunderbolt port. The Thunderbolt controller sends signals to the Thunderbolt port. The signals can be USB, DisplayPort or Thunderbolt depending on what is connected to the Thunderbolt port. A Thunderbolt signal can include tunnelled PCIe and tunnelled DisplayPort. To transmit a DisplayPort signal or tunnel a DisplayPort connection, a DisplayPort output from the GPU must be connected to a DisplayPort input of the Thunderbolt controller. To tunnel two DisplayPort connections (for two displays), a second DisplayPort output from the GPU must be connected to a second DisplayPort input of the Thunderbolt controller. PC laptop manufacturers often cheap out on this point. You need to find a laptop that specifies two displays from a Thunderbolt port, or that specifies Thunderbolt 4 which is guaranteed to allow two displays from a Thunderbolt port.

Your laptop has 3 display outputs: the internal display, the Thunderbolt port, and the HDMI port. The GPU only supports 3 display outputs so the only way it could connect two outputs to the Thunderbolt port is if it added a switch between the HDMI port and the Thunderbolt controller. A switch adds cost and takes space on the motherboard.

Can you verify that the TS4 Thunderbolt 4 Dock is connected properly as Thunderbolt? You should be able to see the 2.5 GbE controller in the Device Manager (view by connection) as a PCI device under a Thunderbolt PCI bridge.

One way to connect two displays to a single DisplayPort connection is to use an MST hub, but this will halve the output for each display from 4K60 (or 5K47) to 4K30 (or 5K23). I don't know what the lowest refresh rate the Apple Studio Display can support. Someone will have to test with some custom timings. I think you might prefer trying to get a USB-C signal from the HDMI port using a CAC-1336.

Another way is to not use DisplayPort. Instead, use USB. A DisplayLink adapter is a USB adapter that can output a DisplayPort signal. It uses compression to transmit video from the CPU to the display. 4K60 (12 Gbps) is compressed to ≈ 1 Gbps. It's not great for gaming or video.
I think that is where the issue is at — when i connect the dock i am not seeing the 2.5 GbE connection, all I see is a Thunderbolt (TM) Controller (15BF). I also tried the CAC-1336 and that almost worked, I tried it with (1) monitor directly connected via USB C and the other monitor using the adapter. (the one connected with the CAC-1336) is a black screen, sound comes out but just cant get the picture to show.

Thanks so much for your help — your time is greatly appreciated.
 
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kreasu_

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 18, 2022
207
134
As a reminder I updated the directions to delete the machallsys registry and device from device manager to prevent bluescreens on some windows 11 installs when you're trying to install the bootcamp driver for brightness and color mode switiching.
 

joevt

Contributor
Jun 21, 2012
6,700
4,089
I think that is where the issue is at — when i connect the dock i am not seeing the 2.5 GbE connection, all I see is a Thunderbolt (TM) Controller (15BF).
I think that might be the Thunderbolt controller of your laptop.
https://pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/8086/15bf

It seems that the Thunderbolt 4 dock is only connecting as a USB-C dock. Maybe you can see its USB devices in the Device Manager connected to the USB controller of the Thunderbolt controller.

If the Thunderbolt controller is really just a JHL6240, then it means it can support only one display, so trying a Thunderbolt 3 dock would be pointless, unless you want to do USB 5 or 10 Gbps and full DisplayPort (4K60) at the same time.
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/612/18-241_ThunderboltController_Brief_HI-1733055.pdf

It also means that the Thunderbolt controller can only do ≈1600 MB/s to a NVMe SSD or eGPU instead of the normal ≈2700 MB/s.

I also tried the CAC-1336 and that almost worked, I tried it with (1) monitor directly connected via USB C and the other monitor using the adapter. (the one connected with the CAC-1336) is a black screen, sound comes out but just cant get the picture to show.
The CAC-1336 should be able to work with USB-C displays or USB-C docks. The Apple Studio Display can work as a USB-C display so it should work.

For a USB-C to DisplayPort adapter, I have to put a CalDigit Element Hub between the CAC-1336's USB-C port and the USB-C to DisplayPort adapter. You don't have a CalDigit Element Hub, but you do have a Thunderbolt 4 dock. Try this:
laptop HDMI port -> CAC-1336 -> Thunderbolt 4 dock -> Apple Studio Display.

What resolution is Windows trying to use to connect to the Apple Studio Display? Start with the lowest possible, then work up. The fact that audio works means the USB connection from the CAC-1336 to the Apple Studio Display is at least working.
 

vespula

macrumors newbie
May 4, 2023
3
0
Is there any way how to use motherboard's thunderbolt as a display input?

I have Asus ROG Maximus z790 Hero with two TB4s but no DP input and want to connect Apple Studio Display.

My idea is to connect my RTX DP output to the motherboard's Thunderbolt and ASD connect the the second Thunderbolt.
 

joevt

Contributor
Jun 21, 2012
6,700
4,089
Is there any way how to use motherboard's thunderbolt as a display input?

I have Asus ROG Maximus z790 Hero with two TB4s but no DP input and want to connect Apple Studio Display.

My idea is to connect my RTX DP output to the motherboard's Thunderbolt and ASD connect the the second Thunderbolt.
The DisplayPort inputs of a Thunderbolt controller cannot be switched to one of the USB-C ports as far as I know. Anyway, even if that were possible, there's no software to make that happen.

You'll need to use a Thunderbolt add-in card (if your motherboard supports it) or a DisplayPort to USB-C adapter or cable (preferable one with USB 2.0 input so you can use the USB features of the display but not at USB 3.x speed).
 

vespula

macrumors newbie
May 4, 2023
3
0
When I connect ASD directly to MB's TB4, Windows recognises it and also the speakers work. But the screen is still black. When the MB's TB4 is declared to be two-way, my logic is to use the remaining second TB4 to feed the MB with GPU signal.
 

kreasu_

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 18, 2022
207
134
When I connect ASD directly to MB's TB4, Windows recognises it and also the speakers work. But the screen is still black. When the MB's TB4 is declared to be two-way, my logic is to use the remaining second TB4 to feed the MB with GPU signal.
That won't work your board needs to specifically support display passthrough or you have to add in an add on card. If you don't have passthrough, you need to have an igpu, for amd that would something like a 5600g
 

vespula

macrumors newbie
May 4, 2023
3
0
That won't work your board needs to specifically support display passthrough or you have to add in an add on card. If you don't have passthrough, you need to have an igpu, for amd that would something like a 5600g
You're right. I've had no success with this solution. I ordered the ASUS ProArt Z790 with DP inputs as a replacement for the ROG Maximus. So feeding the ProArt DP input with the signal from the RTX and connecting the ASD to the MB thunderbolt is the plan.

I'm not sure with the cables, will the TB cable that came with the ASD work with my board? I see the WAVLINK Thunderbolt 3 Cable is out of stock.
 

kreasu_

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 18, 2022
207
134
You're right. I've had no success with this solution. I ordered the ASUS ProArt Z790 with DP inputs as a replacement for the ROG Maximus. So feeding the ProArt DP input with the signal from the RTX and connecting the ASD to the MB thunderbolt is the plan.

I'm not sure with the cables, will the TB cable that came with the ASD work with my board? I see the WAVLINK Thunderbolt 3 Cable is out of stock.
The thunderbolt 4 cable that came with the asd will work just fine, any thunderbolt 3 or 4 certified cable will work including Cornings TB3 fiber optic ones
 

BeatCrazy

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2011
5,011
4,348
You're right. I've had no success with this solution. I ordered the ASUS ProArt Z790 with DP inputs as a replacement for the ROG Maximus. So feeding the ProArt DP input with the signal from the RTX and connecting the ASD to the MB thunderbolt is the plan.

I'm not sure with the cables, will the TB cable that came with the ASD work with my board? I see the WAVLINK Thunderbolt 3 Cable is out of stock.

The thunderbolt 4 cable that came with the asd will work just fine, any thunderbolt 3 or 4 certified cable will work including Cornings TB3 fiber optic ones
In my experience the Apple TB cable that comes with the Studio Display/Pro Display XDR does not play nicely with Windows PCs. Use a TB4 cable for best compatibility.
 

kreasu_

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 18, 2022
207
134
In my experience the Apple TB cable that comes with the Studio Display/Pro Display XDR does not play nicely with Windows PCs. Use a TB4 cable for best compatibility.
Mine has been working just fine on my Asus proart board, especially after deleting the machallsys driver from device manager and it's associated service
 

henry72

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2009
1,532
923
New Zealand
I connected my work Dell laptop (Latitude 5520) and it worked! The only issue is I can't change the brightness; audio, mic and webcam seem to work fine. I have no intention to use my ASD with a Windows laptop but I was just curious.

There are 5 unknown drivers in Device Manager, the first one is obvious but I don't know about the rest. The laptop struggles to power the 5K screen lol.
 

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kreasu_

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 18, 2022
207
134
I connected my work Dell laptop (Latitude 5520) and it worked! The only issue is I can't change the brightness; audio, mic and webcam seem to work fine. I have no intention to use my ASD with a Windows laptop but I was just curious.

There are 5 unknown drivers in Device Manager, the first one is obvious but I don't know about the rest. The laptop struggles to power the 5K screen lol.
You need the boot camp drivers for the brightness and color space control
 

cinedog

macrumors newbie
May 29, 2023
25
7
You're right. I've had no success with this solution. I ordered the ASUS ProArt Z790 with DP inputs as a replacement for the ROG Maximus. So feeding the ProArt DP input with the signal from the RTX and connecting the ASD to the MB thunderbolt is the plan.

I'm not sure with the cables, will the TB cable that came with the ASD work with my board? I see the WAVLINK Thunderbolt 3 Cable is out of stock.
Thanks for doing this testing. It looks like Thunderbolt ports are not bi-directional when it comes to Displayport (you can't use a Thunderbolt port as a DP in).

So are these the motherboard requirements to get the full 5k 60Hz 10 bit working on a desktop PC?
  • Thunderbolt ports
    • Plug monitor into a Thunderbolt port.
  • Two DP inputs (like the ASUS ProArt Z790)
    • Plug 2 separate DP cables from dedicated GPU to the DP input ports (DP IN 1 and DP IN 2) on the motherboard.
 
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joevt

Contributor
Jun 21, 2012
6,700
4,089
  • Two DP inputs (like the ASUS ProArt Z790)
    • Plug 2 separate DP cables from dedicated GPU to the DP input ports (DP IN 1 and DP IN 2) on the motherboard.
You don't need 2 DP inputs for the Apple Studio Display if your GPU supports DSC.
 

cinedog

macrumors newbie
May 29, 2023
25
7
You don't need 2 DP inputs for the Apple Studio Display if your GPU supports DSC.
So is the Apple Studio Display panel setup differently from the Ultrafine 5K? I must be confusing it with the older panel, because I think the Ultrafine 5k requires two separate DP IN's because the panel itself is split into two halves to overcome the DP 1.2 no DSC limitation back then.

I would still need at least 1 DP input right?
 

joevt

Contributor
Jun 21, 2012
6,700
4,089
So is the Apple Studio Display panel setup differently from the Ultrafine 5K? I must be confusing it with the older panel, because I think the Ultrafine 5k requires two separate DP IN's because the panel itself is split into two halves to overcome the DP 1.2 no DSC limitation back then.

I would still need at least 1 DP input right?
Apple Studio Display supports the same kind of Thunderbolt input as the LG UltraFine 5K for GPUs that don't support DSC (dual HBR2 over Thunderbolt). It also supports a single HBR2 input like the LG UltraFine 5K for 4K60 or 5K39 (with custom timing and maybe also 5K47 if the Apple Studio Display is not limited to ≈600 MHz?). Thirdly, it supports HBR2 + DSC for GPUs that support DSC to get 5K60 10bpc RGB from a single DisplayPort connection. With Thunderbolt, you get 10 Gbps USB ports. With USB-C, you only get 480 Mb/s USB ports. LG UltraFine 5K USB is limited to 5 Gbps for Thunderbolt.
 

kreasu_

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 18, 2022
207
134
Some users might want to open at startup, but since the app requires elevated permissions, you have to run it through task scheduler instead of putting a shortcut in the startup folder:

1) Windows + R to open the Run Command: taskschd.msc
2) Inside task scheduler on the right column click New Task (Basic)
3) In the main config, MAKE SURE RUN WITH HIGHESTPRIVILEGES is checked ON

000015-02.png


4) In triggers click new and set the trigger to "At Log On"
000014-02.png

5) In Action click New and change the action to Start a program, then browse to the brightness controller.
000012-02.png
 

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Chris_Poland

macrumors newbie
May 21, 2023
22
14
Hello,
I encourage everyone to download the update of my "Studio Display Brightness Controller" application, there is a small but important stability fix, the link is in the first post of this thread.
 
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cinedog

macrumors newbie
May 29, 2023
25
7
Apple Studio Display supports the same kind of Thunderbolt input as the LG UltraFine 5K for GPUs that don't support DSC (dual HBR2 over Thunderbolt). It also supports a single HBR2 input like the LG UltraFine 5K for 4K60 or 5K39 (with custom timing and maybe also 5K47 if the Apple Studio Display is not limited to ≈600 MHz?). Thirdly, it supports HBR2 + DSC for GPUs that support DSC to get 5K60 10bpc RGB from a single DisplayPort connection. With Thunderbolt, you get 10 Gbps USB ports. With USB-C, you only get 480 Mb/s USB ports. LG UltraFine 5K USB is limited to 5 Gbps for Thunderbolt.
A separate question I had: Are you limited to one Apple Studio Display per Thunderbolt controller? On a M1 Max MacBook Pro I think each Thunderbolt port has a separate controller, so I could plug in multiple ASD's, one to each port. But on my desktop computer, although the motherboard has two Thunderbolt ports, I think they are both wired to the same Thunderbolt controller. SO there is only a single Thunderbolt controller on the motherboard. In this case, would I only be able to run one ASD via Thunderbolt?
 

kreasu_

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 18, 2022
207
134
A separate question I had: Are you limited to one Apple Studio Display per Thunderbolt controller? On a M1 Max MacBook Pro I think each Thunderbolt port has a separate controller, so I could plug in multiple ASD's, one to each port. But on my desktop computer, although the motherboard has two Thunderbolt ports, I think they are both wired to the same Thunderbolt controller. SO there is only a single Thunderbolt controller on the motherboard. In this case, would I only be able to run one ASD via Thunderbolt?
On windows you're only limited by what is the max throughput of your gpu. For example on my 4090 if I have two displayport passthroughs into thunderbolt I can use each port to drive seperate displays, I've also driven two asd on a windows laptop using an Intel chip (Asus ux482)

You cannot daisy chain on thunderbolt using windows
 

joevt

Contributor
Jun 21, 2012
6,700
4,089
A separate question I had: Are you limited to one Apple Studio Display per Thunderbolt controller? On a M1 Max MacBook Pro I think each Thunderbolt port has a separate controller, so I could plug in multiple ASD's, one to each port. But on my desktop computer, although the motherboard has two Thunderbolt ports, I think they are both wired to the same Thunderbolt controller. SO there is only a single Thunderbolt controller on the motherboard. In this case, would I only be able to run one ASD via Thunderbolt?
A Thunderbolt controller usually has two DisplayPort inputs so it can output to two different displays.

If your GPU supports DSC, then you can connect two ASD to a single Thunderbolt port using a Thunderbolt 4 hub. You could use a Thunderbolt 3 device, but one of the displays would need to be connected using DisplayPort Alt Mode instead of Thunderbolt.

A Thunderbolt controller that has two Thunderbolt ports means that if you connect two displays to one Thunderbolt port, then the other Thunderbolt port cannot support a display.
 

Ilysia

macrumors newbie
Oct 25, 2020
4
0
Hello, i try to install the brightness controller, but i don't have the "vid:05ac pid:1114 rev:0201 mi:08" on Filter Wizard, how can i do ? :(
 

kreasu_

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 18, 2022
207
134
Hello, i try to install the brightness controller, but i don't have the "vid:05ac pid:1114 rev:0201 mi:08" on Filter Wizard, how can i do ? :(
what interface/cable are you using to connect to the monitor?
 
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