Apple to Release Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR on December 10

[Abazigal]

OK...

Lets say that you were to buy a McLaren F1 for $X.

Would you consider the $12,000 USD wiper blade to be fairly priced? Or would you agree that for a sliver of rubber (essentially just a longer version of what is on your own car), it is a rip off?

I would look at the final price of the McLaren. Accessories and all.

It's not out of line with Apple's line of accessories. You can argue that Apple's official cases and dongles are more expensive than third-party alternatives, and that's the whole point - they are optional accessories.

Same thing with the stand, which is meant to be optional for its target market, because the people buying one are likely working in studios with similar monitors already mounted on VESA mounts, and so they don't necessarily need the stand, or even the VESA mount that Apple is offering, and that's perfectly okay.

 

[FlyingDutch]

I get a chuckle from the fact that the $6k base model has only a 256GB SSD (as reported).

Yes, storage can be expanded, and the target market will no doubt use networked storage for work, but even the base iMac Pro gets a 1TB SSD standard.

Yes that is ridiculous since even the new MacBook Pro 16” starts with a 512 Gb SSD.

 

[Abazigal]

A better venue to debut the Mac Pro would have at the FCPX Creative Summit last month or at NAB 2020

It may not have gotten as much publicity compared to WWDC, that's my guess.

 

[OkiRun]

A better venue to debut the Mac Pro would have at the FCPX Creative Summit last month or at NAB 2020

I think it certainly would have been nice to see some 7.1 'finished product' from professionals in film, audio, and CAD.

 

[FlyingDutch]

i doubt it. There's been no mention at all. I wish they would. The chips they need are now available. I don't need the power of a Mac Pro, so a revised iMac Pro would be nice.

They never announce internal updates.

 

[jinnyman]

Where do you think the CI build servers for all those iOS and macOS apps are?

I suggest you go look at what MacStadium do, your assumption that anything not in a “render farm” is a “personal computer” is quite telling.

Yes I accept that. For xcode server for ios developer and Mac OS apps developer, you have no choice. As for software developing and integration solution for apple apps, you don't have any choice.

However, for the other purpose, such as mentioned before, where you can have other option, this product is not meant for it.

 

[MacBH928]

Well. I'm pretty sure MP 7,1 sales will be lackluster. Real serious players already long gone to PC or Linux. And this MP is pretty much slap in the face for audio pros.
Rendering farms no longer use a standalone PC. This is also slap in face for prosumers and freelancers requiring one PC.

But then, unless Apple want to portray their Mac OS and computer as for ios users only, I believe they will keep trying, albeit with crazy amount of delay, making professional desktops.

Depending on the software, if I used Mac for work I would have left a very long time ago. I can customize and price the hardware just like I want using the exact software I want, and my OS(Windows) will run even more apps that Mac, so why stick to MacOS?

All I need to know is that apps on Windows are solid and do not crash, I still have bad taste from the blue screen of death.

and i hope that their sales are absolute crap and they realize that they've lost touch with reality when it comes to their recent mac/display pro pricing.

I see your point, but PC sales are on the decline and even more the tower models. If the MPro does not pick up, Tim will translate this as "No one wants a Mac Pro machine, lets stick to iOS" it will not translate as "We priced it too high, lets try again".

They go where the money goes, and the sad part is that the macOS will get neglected

You’re right, it’s not going to happen. The Mac Pro is not and will never be one of the sales leaders for the Mac, those are currently and will always be held by mobile devices.

Its not going to be a sale leader, but if it makes a significant sales number, they might consider giving more attention to more powerful hardware and the MacOS instead of emojis.

 

[RedTheReader]

Be honest, is that NOT what you meant when asking me to show you where?

No I didn’t expect screenshots.

What? Not screenshots, this:

… you expect me to somehow remember and point you to the threads, blogs, comments, and videos featuring people sharing these feelings.

I just figured that if you saw people making a claim enough to remember it you might also remember where they made it. Even a vague reference would have been fine

Based on what you wrote above, that does seem to be what you meant. Look, I can give you vague recollections. There were threads here back when I lurked and didn't post, comment sections in articles on 9To5Mac, comment sections on the Verge, and on Apple Insider. All during the first wave of coverage in the week or two following WWDC. You'd see the typical back and forth battle between people, one saying the machine wasn't for low-level pros anymore ("it's not for you") and the other saying that it used to be.

If someone tells me they heard someone else say something, but when I ask who, or where, or just for any kind of context they don’t know, and get defensive about it, I tend not to give their opinion much weight.

The reason I found your first request so ridiculous was because the above paragraph I wrote is vague and meaningless. What can anyone possibly gain from that? When there's a sea of opinions that we, as Apple fans, are continually swimming through, what did you expect me to remember? What kind of meaningful response could you have possibly have expected from me? It didn't feel like a genuine question, really did feel like you saying "I don't believe you."

 

[dantroline]

Yeah, rack mounting a Mac Pro now they killed macOS server is a dumb idea. Left hand of Apple not talking to right hand.

You're not going to build a render farm of these, because that's what you'd use a Linux cluster for. At FAR LESS COST.

Yes I had a look at MacOS Server the other day, just to see if it still has a use. Disappointing right now, headless configurations are easier with Linux, even Windows.

 

[Stephen.R]

However, for the other purpose, such as mentioned before, where you can have other option, this product is not meant for it.

You realise you’re the only one who mentioned rack mounting it as a “render cluster”? It was right before you claimed anything else is hobbyist, remember?

 

[jinnyman]

You realise you’re the only one who mentioned rack mounting it as a “render cluster”? It was right before you claimed anything else is hobbyist, remember?

If you plan to use it as server and render cluster you are not serious. Yes for those, they must love to burn their money or crazy "hobbyist".

For Mac and iOS software ci server, I accept my mistake. In that field you have no choice as I said that already. But for other "generic" you must be out of !@#ing mind to invest in MP for that.

 

[Stephen.R]

What kind of meaningful response could you have possibly have expected from me? It didn't feel like a genuine question, really did feel like you saying "I don't believe you."

If someone asks you for where you heard/read something you’ve claimed to have heard/read, and you can’t give any recollection at all, they probably won’t believe you.

But this is getting off topic. Ok, some people somewhere said they’re “pros” but that the new machine is too expensive for them. I personally haven’t seen that claim anywhere here in the threads I’ve seen, or on other forums. Tinkerers and “prosumers”, sure.

 

[UBS28]

Who would buy this garbage? AMD is killing Intel. I’d rather build a good PC for way less money and much better performance if more horsepower is needed.

You don’t get good customer service from the Apple geniuses anyway so might as well do it yourself.

 

[Lone Deranger]

I’m making my final decision after finding out the BTO.
I’m highly considering the MBP 16 And one XDR with nano tech.
I would love to get the MP but I think the workstation for my needs will be around $11k without the display. We’ll see.

Sounds like a very nice combination. I wonder though, does the GPU in the 16" MBP have the ability to output true 10-bit colour (10bpc)?

 

[Stephen.R]

If you plan to use it as server and render cluster you are not serious.

Again, no one suggested this but you.

But for other "generic" you must be out of !@#ing mind to invest in MP for that.

Well since your original claim you’ve acknowledged that there’s at least one other use for it, so perhaps there’s more you haven’t thought of and hyperbolic statements are generally meaningless?
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Who would buy this garbage? AMD is killing Intel. I’d rather build a good PC for way less money and much better performance if more horsepower is needed.

You don’t get good customer service from the Apple geniuses anyway so might as well do it yourself.

Who would comment in a thread about something they have no intention to buy using analogies that don’t work?

How many horse power does your PC have? I can tell you all my macs ever owned combined have zero horsepower - even the tiniest of horses would easily win in a game of horse vs computer tug-of-war.

 

[Lone Deranger]

But the Mac Pro has always been for "them". Since its introduction in 2006 the Mac Pro lineup starts at $2499. Even with inflation back a decade ago thats a sub $3500 starting point....the price basically doubled.

	Late 2006	Early 2008	Early 2009	Mid 2010	Mid 2012	Late 2013	Late 2019
Prices	$2,499	$2,799	$2,499	$2,499	$2,499	$2,999	$5,999

Nice table. Is there a good resource somewhere to track Mac prices over time? I'm curious to see how the Power Macs and Quadros stacked up.

 

[jinnyman]

Again, no one suggested this but you.


Well since your original claim you’ve acknowledged that there’s at least one other use for it, so perhaps there’s more you haven’t thought of and hyperbolic statements are generally meaningless?

if you are not bound to Mac OS as server, give me one case where you'd invest in MP for rack mounted cluster/server setup. For server infra, Apple hardware sucks badass because they are not meant for it period. If you don't understand what I mean, then there's no point continuing this discussion. I'd laugh at anyone who want to build cluster out of thinkpad P1 or MBP16" regardless of how good invidual machine really is. Your anecdote sounds that much. You don't have to have Ph.D to conclude that seriously.

If you can counter that, I'd gladly accept it, but I don't think so.

 

[BaltimoreMediaBlog]

That IS a funny joke!

Funny as in you don't think a professional computer from 2005 should be able to use a banking website or email or use the websites at all? Are you really that snobby?

I also have a 2009 Mac Pro from a California graphics design studio that did significant graphics work for one of the Toy Story movies. So that shouldn't able to access Bank of America either?

You missed the point of the whole comment. There's nothing technical restricting a PowerMac G5 from getting EMAIL or accessing bank websites or Youtube except Apple. The technology is still there. The software isn't.

Computers of this type to me are like automobiles. Should my car stop running because you changed engines in the new models? When you change processor platform design like PowerPC to Intel or now soon Intel to ARM A series chips, there might be an increase in speed and ability to do a lot of cool things, but at the same time you're taking away the basics to people who spent a fortune on a machine to last a long time.

When Apple switches to A series chips, this $6000 machine will be the laughingstock of the computer industry, not because it's not technically capable, but because no software will ever be updated again!

So yeah, I learned the PowerPC lesson and the Megahertz myth before.
So spend Ten Grand on this Fool's Gold or a used car. I bet the car lasts longer.

 

[jinnyman]

Funny as in you don't think a professional computer from 2005 should be able to use a banking website or email or use the websites at all? Are you really that snobby?

I also have a 2009 Mac Pro from a California graphics design studio that did significant graphics work for one of the Toy Story movies. So that shouldn't able to access Bank of America either?

You missed the point of the whole comment. There's nothing technical restricting a PowerMac G5 from getting EMAIL or accessing bank websites or Youtube except Apple. The technology is still there. The software isn't.

Computers of this type to me are like automobiles. Should my car stop running because you changed engines in the new models. When you change processor platform design like PowerPC to Intel or now soon Intel to AIM A series chips, there might be an increase in speed and ability to do a lot of cool things, but at the same time you're taking away the basics to people who spent a fortune on a machine to last a long time.

When Apple switches to A series chips, this $6000 machine will be the laughingstock of the computer industry, not because it's not technically capable, but because no software will ever be updated again!

So yeah, so yeah, I learned the PowerPC lesson and the Megahertz myth before.
So spend Ten Grand on this Fool's Gold or a used car. I bet the car lasts longer.

I know what you mean. Apple should not consider switching to ARM in near future unless they want to slap MP 7,1 users. We all know from experience going from PPC to intel that when platform change happens, no body really put resources into old platform.

If, let's say, ARM switch happens 2020, MP 7,1 will become a laughingstock for all those more than 10 years folks. Oh yes. It will still be a viable solution for a "real" professional who will switch from 7,1 in 2~3 years.

 

[Stephen.R]

if you are not bound to Mac OS as server, give me one case where you'd invest in MP for rack mounted cluster/server setup.

Well, how about those who.. you know... do use macOS? I already gave you one case, remember? My point is that you're so quick (like others) to just assume "Mac Pro = Video/3d rendering" that you dismiss any possible alternative use of it before you even consider what other uses it has.

Your anecdote sounds that much.

My "anecdote" was a reference to CI build servers.. so not really an anecdote as, an actual thing that exists and is popular in software development.

If you can counter that, I'd gladly accept it, but I don't think so.

I literally did, already. I gave you one example off the top of my head where your "this is only for hobbyists" rant falls flat on its face.

 

[citysnaps]

I flatly disagree - who wants to pay 4000 and 1000 on top for a monitor ?? I am sorry, but your logic is FLAWED - Mac Pro, not so because 99 percent of people in USA don't need this machine..The only reason why I have a 2010-2012 Mac Pro is for expandability and tinkering.

You haven't explained how my logic is FLAWED.

If you can't afford it, or don't need its capabilities and performance, it's not for you. Simply purchase a NEC or Eizo and be happy.

 

[jinnyman]

Well, how about those who.. you know... do use macOS? I already gave you one case, remember? My point is that you're so quick (like others) to just assume "Mac Pro = Video/3d rendering" that you dismiss any possible alternative use of it before you even consider what other uses it has.


My "anecdote" was a reference to CI build servers.. so not really an anecdote as, an actual thing that exists and is popular in software development.


I literally did, already. I gave you one example off the top of my head where your "this is only for hobbyists" rant falls flat on its face.

Thank you. I thought so. Yes someone just just use Mac OS just like myself. I use MBP and Mini. But that's not the thing being discussed.

I accept that one case is possible and I apologize if my blunt statement made you turn on somehow, but solely as hardware choice, MP is not meant for it. My example of "cluster,server" reference was meant for that argument. You know, nobody is insane enough to do server for just sake of buying MP hardware. When Apple say it's rack mountable, they are merely pointing out the fact that it can be rack mountable, they are not marketing it as a "generic" server. If so, MP is a terrible hardware design.

 

[AndiG]

Serious question - what professional audio/video work are you doing on a Linux machine? What applications?

I didn't know it was in use in the industry at all.

If you're not, why are you interested in macs?

When you watch WWDC carefully wait for the moment when Tim Cook explains how awesome the MacPro is for developers. Wait til he explains how fast you can test apps parallel in many languages and how fast the build times are.
So I‘m a developer you will have fun with your machine when all developers left the Mac.
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That’s nice, but people here are interested in the MacPro and MacOS.......?

So you wanted to say people love Catalina? Worst OS Apple did in many years.
The question was about price and performance of a MacPro and there is no other machine that could compete with it for half the price.
My machine could run macOS but why should I install macOS Catalina? No 32 Bit, no cuda, no modern OpenGL, no bash and it is really lame.
I have two machines running side by side - a MacBook Pro 2018, Core i9, 32GB 1TB SSD and my Linux PC with 2TB NVMe SSD and the same Core i9. The MBP was twice as expensive and takes twice as long to open an application, the Core i9 in my Mac throttles most of the time. Keyboard sucks. The Adapters on the Mac work most of the time but sometimes I have to disconnect everything, turn it off, turn it on again, wait, reconnect everything. Apple - it just works ...

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Funny as in

Funny as in you said:
“I have 2 favorite jokes about this.”

I thought jokes were meant to be funny and I informed you, good job, it WAS funny.

 

[Abazigal]

Who would buy this garbage? AMD is killing Intel. I’d rather build a good PC for way less money and much better performance if more horsepower is needed.

And the people claiming they can build a better computer for under $1200 put an absolute garbage CPU in it that would take 5x longer to render video or compile code.