I will never wear Vision Pro again: text on real displays looks '3d' after taking Vision Pro off. Anyone else having eye/brain problems?

[sleeptodream]

I get this after taking Ambien, but never after using VR

 

[JustAnExpat]

I'm not surprised. See https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...have-adverse-effects-on-cognition-study-finds

I believe in the future there will be a hard mandatory limit, issued by the government, on how many hours in a day you can use AR/VR devices to prevent these types of side effects.

 

[zakarhino]

Red popping out of displays is common with high index prescription glasses. OP do you wear prescription glasses?

Nope never needed them

 

[Seanm87]

Interesting thread. I’ve been thinking about the effect this will have on the brain/eyes and the health implications and I’m surprised no one had been talking about it.

I wondered if people would start hallucinating and seeing floating windows that aren’t there.

I don’t know if anyone remembers the game heavy rain where the FBI agent in one of the endings starts seeing little tanks driving over his desk and he isn’t wearing the glasses.

 

[jem7]

As others before me have stated, this is probably your brain, not your eyes. I have worked on a curved 21:9 monitor for years and every flat monitor now looks convex to me. However, this only applies to monitors, all other flat surfaces looks perfectly flat, my brain just expects monitors to be curved.

 

[klasma]

It’s been explained to me that this is why the eye darts around a lot - so that the macular can take hundreds of detailed ‘snapshots’ and use them to fill-in the peripheral so that we perceive a whole, cohesive image. Crazy stuff 👍

ETA: I recall it being said that the actual area that our eye captures in high definition color at any one moment is roughly approximate to a thumbnail held at arm’s length 😳

Yeah, it’s a bit like an AI paintbrush that fills in the rest of the picture.

 

[klasma]

While the effect is real, this image is also cheating by using a pattern on the blue parts.

Indeed, from the history on the details page of the image, which originally didn’t have the pattern: “I do not see the chromostereo effect in the original file, whereas I do usually see this effect clearly. By adding some texture in the background, I believe the effect is much stronger.” 🤦‍♂️

 

[bobjonesco]

Have previous headsets like Oculus and Quest produced the same complaints? If not, what's the difference in the Vision Pro that would cause this?

I recently got a Quest 3, and yes - I've experienced a similar sensation after spending a few hours in VR.

 

[klasma]

I believe in the future there will be a hard mandatory limit, issued by the government, on how many hours in a day you can use AR/VR devices to prevent these types of side effects.

“Don’t VR and drive!”

 

[Jumpthesnark]

I imagine this has something to do with each eye getting its own different display in the AVP, as compared to what millions of years of evolution has prepared us for: binocular vision with each eye looking at the same single object.

But I'm no optician, and I'd wager to say that neither are most of the people offering advice here, as well intentioned as it may be.

This is a health issue, and you definitely need to talk with your optician about it. The AVP is so new that they will likely not have any experience with other patients who are using an AVP, but they should be able to offer better advice based on the symptoms you're experiencing.

Good luck, I hope you get information/advice that helps, and that your eyes are okay in the long run.

 

[Borjan]

The brain gets used to many different things. Well known experiments involve inverting vision (ie upside down) for extended durations and you adapt pretty quickly.

I would imagine this is what’s happening here.

 

[Jensend]

While the effect is real, this image is also cheating by using a pattern on the blue parts.

Indeed, from the history on the details page of the image, which originally didn’t have the pattern: “I do not see the chromostereo effect in the original file, whereas I do usually see this effect clearly. By adding some texture in the background, I believe the effect is much stronger.” 🤦‍♂️

I don't see how that is cheating. The image I posted earlier in the thread was also highly textured. Texture/pattern gives the eyes something to focus on. We can't focus/converge accurately on featureless expanses of a single value. However, I would change it so the red text also has the pattern.

 

[Absrnd]

 

[batman75]

Yes it’s like I couldn’t tell the distance of things anymore and when I tried to park, I hit the car next to me 🙈 thankfully not too much damage, just a few minor scratches but it was like daaaaamn

Enough to tell the owner of the other car and take responsibility, or you just did a hit and run so it didnt cost you anything.

 

[NT1440]

People can downplay this all they want, but it's the sort of thing that will terminally hamper mass adoption of this type of device.

Apple may want to get back to the R&D lab and bail on this for now.

And re-engineer 3rd party monitors? Not going to happen.

For whatever reason, Apple made the Vision Pro constantly flash your eyes. This is not safe for your natural vision, and remember the Vision Pro is a screen strapped to the users face without any way for natural light to get inside.

Artificial screen flashing/strobing lights over long periods of time may cause permanent flicker vertigo, photosensitive epilepsy, and severe photo sensitivity. This is common knowledge and somehow Apple seems to ignore it.

“Whatever reason” is the fundamental way all screen technologies in the consumer market work. Images get redrawn dozens a time a second.

 

[contacos]

Enough to tell the owner of the other car and take responsibility, or you just did a hit and run so it didnt cost you anything.

Of course. It’s mandatory to have insurance anyway

 

[fs454]

For whatever reason, Apple made the Vision Pro constantly flash your eyes. This is not safe for your natural vision, and remember the Vision Pro is a screen strapped to the users face without any way for natural light to get inside.

Artificial screen flashing/strobing lights over long periods of time may cause permanent flicker vertigo, photosensitive epilepsy, and severe photo sensitivity. This is common knowledge and somehow Apple seems to ignore it.

Only a small subset of people are sensitive to PWM, not the entire population. The issues I have with Vision Pro are absolutely not PWM related but are optics stack related.

 

[klasma]

I don't see how that is cheating. The image I posted earlier in the thread was also highly textured. Texture/pattern gives the eyes something to focus on. We can't focus/converge accurately on featureless expanses of a single value. However, I would change it so the red text also has the pattern.

Yes, the cheating is giving one color a pattern and not the other. The texture implied by the pattern strengthens the connection between separate areas of the same color, suggesting that it is a single connected surface. And it can only be a single surface if it is in the background, covered by the shapes of the other color.

 

[Jensend]

For whatever reason, Apple made the Vision Pro constantly flash your eyes.

The only other option is to have something like a 1000Hz refresh rate. Flashing the images reduces blur from head motion. It's fundamental to how VR works, at least until we can refresh screens at much higher rates.

This is not safe for your natural vision,

citation needed.

and remember the Vision Pro is a screen strapped to the users face without any way for natural light to get inside.

I actually find that mixing different refresh rates and strobe durations is more of an issue than having everything be consistent... I notice the 240Hz flicker rate of my phone more than I notice the 90-144Hz flicker of my VR headset.

Artificial screen flashing/strobing lights over long periods of time may cause permanent flicker vertigo, photosensitive epilepsy, and severe photo sensitivity.

Humanity survived several decades of CRT TVs and monitors, which typically refresh at a lower rate than the Vision Pro. The 90Hz refresh rate that the Vision Pro runs at is above the flicker fusion threshold for almost everyone.

This is common knowledge and somehow Apple seems to ignore it.

Choosing a different compromise does not mean something was ignored.
An Apple Watch could last a week if it was 4 times as big or was significantly less powerful and had a smaller screen. It would be silly of me to say that Apple ignored the possibility of making a watch that lasts a week. They simply decided that a smaller watch with more functionality would be more important to users than very long battery life.

 

[anthonymoody]

Waiting for the "This is your brain....this is your brain on AVP" memes.

Sorry to hear about this OP (and others).

 

[MallardDuck]

I imagine this has something to do with each eye getting its own different display in the AVP, as compared to what millions of years of evolution has prepared us for: binocular vision with each eye looking at the same single object.

But I'm no optician, and I'd wager to say that neither are most of the people offering advice here, as well intentioned as it may be.

This is a health issue, and you definitely need to talk with your optician about it. The AVP is so new that they will likely not have any experience with other patients who are using an AVP, but they should be able to offer better advice based on the symptoms you're experiencing.

Good luck, I hope you get information/advice that helps, and that your eyes are okay in the long run.

Yeah this sounds like a monovision/convergence situation. The AVP may have aggravated an underlying condition that you've been unconsciously compensating for for years. Definitely worth seeing your doc.

 

[adrianlondon]

For exactly the opposite reasoning to the OP, I'm considering trying one out at an Apple store.

I have/had amblyopia* and wonder if an AVP could trigger a fix, as happened to this guy:

How a movie changed one man’s vision forever

Bruce Bridgeman lived with a flat view of the world, until a trip to the cinema unexpectedly made him see the world in 3D. The question is how it happened.

www.bbc.com

*Along with around 5% of the population apparently - watching "3D" films don't work for me and neither do those old "magic eye" pictures.

 

[symphony]

I thought it was just me

 

[Harry Haller]

Don’t worry Vision Pro does not ruin your eyes any more than an ordinary display, it’s just your brain’s interpretation of the signals coming from your eyes which is getting confused because you haven’t spent enough time with Apple Vision Pro for your brain to get used to it and adapt.

It will be interesting to see what long term studies show the health results are of repeated hourly and daily switching between AVP sight and regular sight and it's effect on the brain constantly having to recalibrate between the two.

 

[AlastorKatriona]

So to add to the laundry list of reasons not to buy or use a Vision Pro...we now have the possibility of actual physical side effects, if only temporary. Not good. Not good at all.