Need to stop you right there pal, because "your brain's interpretation of the signals coming from your eyes" is literally what vision is.
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I will never wear Vision Pro again: text on real displays looks '3d' after taking Vision Pro off. Anyone else having eye/brain problems?
- Thread starter zakarhino
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What your brain wants you to see versus what other people's brain wants them to see is always weird. We all don't see the same stuff, especially when it comes to color.
Blue Black dress versus White Gold dress.
Blue Black dress versus White Gold dress.
I noticed this effect last night. After using the VP for a couple hours, then reading something on my phone with white text on black background, I felt I could see the text floating in the air just above the phone. Really trippy.
It didn't scare me or anything, just odd. I will definitely be watching for reports of long-term use. One thing that concerned me a little is I read that there's a constant strobing effect when using VR sets that can definitely impact some people, but I don't know if it has implications for most healthy people or not.
Just as a side note I spent some time last night watching movie trailers, scenes from films and TV shows for a little while in Cinema mode. While I was annoyed with the constant lens flaring, one thing that struck me as concerning after a while was I was feeling somewhat anxious like my blood pressure was up or something.
It was odd so I took it off and sat around watching my real-world TV to calm down and that seemed to work. I fully acknowledge that this could be pure coincidence as I've had anxiety episodes before, but it's one of the things that has me likely returning it, the feeling that using this for me just isn't relaxing and feels kind of like work. If it was cheaper I'd just keep it and see if that feeling improved over time, but at this price point I need to be IN LOVE like I am with my MacBook Pro, and like I am with the Apple Studio Display, and my Apple Watch, lol.
It didn't scare me or anything, just odd. I will definitely be watching for reports of long-term use. One thing that concerned me a little is I read that there's a constant strobing effect when using VR sets that can definitely impact some people, but I don't know if it has implications for most healthy people or not.
Just as a side note I spent some time last night watching movie trailers, scenes from films and TV shows for a little while in Cinema mode. While I was annoyed with the constant lens flaring, one thing that struck me as concerning after a while was I was feeling somewhat anxious like my blood pressure was up or something.
It was odd so I took it off and sat around watching my real-world TV to calm down and that seemed to work. I fully acknowledge that this could be pure coincidence as I've had anxiety episodes before, but it's one of the things that has me likely returning it, the feeling that using this for me just isn't relaxing and feels kind of like work. If it was cheaper I'd just keep it and see if that feeling improved over time, but at this price point I need to be IN LOVE like I am with my MacBook Pro, and like I am with the Apple Studio Display, and my Apple Watch, lol.
These are literally anti-sales pitches for this product.
Want to calm down and relax?
Don’t use AVP
😂
Hahaha, I know, and I swear I'm not trying to be a hater. I was VERY excited about this thing and ordered it on day 1, foolishly before trying it, because I bought into the idea that it would be sold out and unavailable for months or something... oops.. that said even if I had tried it out in-store I'm not sure I'd really have had a sense of what it's like to use it for long stretches and I wouldn't have discovered that about it. Maybe it's my mindset, maybe it's just me, but at this time it feels laborious and a little overwhelming to use for things like watching movies..
I'm still interested in checking out future versions, and truly I might get a Quest 3 just because I could rationalize having it around to play with once in a while and not feel like I'm breaking the bank.
Not really nothing new. High schools have implemented calm rooms and safe zones for the kids who get super stressed out and anxious. People who have these emotional triggers just learn what sets them off and find a happy balance in life. I think you may find that the AVP maybe one of those products you just can't enjoy if it's a normal trigger for your anxiety.
Quest 3 is awesome, honestly. Just don't go into it assuming you're gonna be doing anything but gaming/immersive experiences in it, but the games are incredible and well worth the price of entry, especially if you've never owned a Quest before. Asgard's Wrath 2, Ancient Dungeon VR, Light Brigade, COMPOUND, Boneworks, the list goes on.
No kidding - I was reading my phone in bed after using AVP for an hour or so: I felt like my phone screen was floating above the glass or something. It honestly tripped me out.
My other concern (and this is fairly hypochondriac but fwiw…) I am not convinced there are no health implications of blasting infrared LEDs into my eyeballs for hours per week.
My other concern (and this is fairly hypochondriac but fwiw…) I am not convinced there are no health implications of blasting infrared LEDs into my eyeballs for hours per week.
The sun emits more IR into your eyes daily
My college gf was a synasthete w/ all sorts of weird abilities regarding things like perfect pitch, memory recall, etc. She also had residuals like this from our tripping experiences.
I'm wondering if this might be at play.
Anybody remember the good old days of CRT displays, and getting their first Trinitron or other "flatter squarer tube" displays - and how the display looked "pincushion" shaped (but wasn't if you checked it with a ruler) until you'd got used to it? Hours spent looking at older CRTs with spherical-section screens had trained our brains to "correct" for the curvature, and - presented with an image that was truly flat (or cylinder-section for Trinitron) it took additional hours to learn to "un-correct" it.
Then there was the way you didn't notice the flicker on a 50/60Hz CRT until you's spent some time using a 70Hz or better one (my undoing was the Atari ST) after which it became unbearable...
The other weird one is the (widely documented) "soap opera effect" on higher-frame rate TVs: for the first few weeks of owning one, something in your brain is shouting "cheap" - probably because cheaper, shot-directly-on-video (at 50/60 fields per second) productions actually had smoother motion than "premium" shot-on-film (at 24-25 frames per second) productions. Some of this was maybe down to the new TVs "interpolating" 25/30fps material to "fake" higher frame rates looking slightly artificial, but it famously affected The Hobbit which was actually shot at 48fps so it wasn't just that. Peoples brains had been trained that "better = worse".
So it remains to be seen whether this is a serious problem with AVP but it's not entirely surprising that our poor monkey brains are struggleing to keep up - especially if you're going to flip between using a virtual computer screen in AVP and a real, similar-looking screen in meatspace.
Also, a stereoscopic image is not true 3D - stereoscopy is just one of several tools your eyes/brain has for perceiving depth: you also have distance cues from focusing your eyes, how your eyeballs track together, parallax motion as your viewpoint moves plus your knowledge/expectations of the world in general. Stereoscopy alone doesn't just lack those other channels, but it can send conflicting data (e.g. stereoscopy says you're looking at a distant mountain, but your eyes are focussed at arms length...). AVP, with all of its position sensors could potentially do parallax and eyeball tracking but it's still going to incomplete.
So, yeah, the problem with AVP is that Apple's, er, vision, seems to be that everybody is going to wear these goggles for long periods to use their AR/VR work tools, and some people's eyes/brains simply won't tolerate that.
Probably true, but be careful: first, IR covers a huge part of the EM spectrum, and different frequencies can have different effects. One would hope that Apple have done their research in that regard...
Also, the sun emits a lot of energy as visible light which deters you from staring at the sun or bright reflections on account of being, well, visible. One danger with sources that only emit IR and UV is that you can happily stare into them without realising the danger.
OP experience eye issues after using the Vision Pro and Apple defenders blames the sun?
The Vision Pro is done. Finished.
The Vision Pro is done. Finished.
i remember when my mom used to yell at me for playing the sega too close to the tv.
Now we are expected to believe that having a screen right on your eyeballs have no meaningful effects on your eye health.
No thanks I'm out. This is a tech demo, not a serious product.
Now we are expected to believe that having a screen right on your eyeballs have no meaningful effects on your eye health.
No thanks I'm out. This is a tech demo, not a serious product.
Why say something so definitive when you’ll almost certainly be incorrect?
I’m a bit curious – what is included in what count as reality then and where goes the line? No books that deal with fiction allowed?
I think fantasy gives more value to life, but I also think that there should be balance to things and we shouldn’t let it take over too much. Must be able to handle both fiction and fact.
Or it’s a part of a newer ”real life”? I’m not sure I see a clear line. Because communication still happens, just not face to face.
The article on PWM and the AVP you referenced interestingly compares displays such as those in the AVP with incandescent light bulbs. If most people are like me, nearly all the lights in homes are LEDs that also use PWM. This would mean that after sunset, all the light we're seeing is strobed. I assume that lights of the same brand -- or using similar controllers -- and dimmed to the same level would be strobing at the same multiple of the 50 or 60Hz mains. Is this bad for us?You got my attention…
I do not have this issue you are experiencing but I’ve always been cautious of what kind of health risks may arise from a headset such as this. I do notice my eyes get a little more watery after using it for bit, causing me to rub them, but nothing more than that. Apple Insider had a good article a few days ago describing possible health issues resulting from AVP use. Link at the bottom.
I’m not a doctor either but I would recommend at least going to one. I haven’t heard anything like this, anywhere on the Web other than yours and the other user in this thread. Maybe I missed them or maybe it’s not widespread but this may very well be a blessing in disguise. What I’m saying is, maybe it’s possible that the AVP uncovered an underlying health issue for you that can be stopped in its tracks. If the issue you’re experiencing is bilateral, it might be more to do with the brain than the eyes.
Anyways, hope this gets resolved for you soon and it’s nothing to worry about. Link:
Why Apple Vision Pro constantly strobing matters to your health
The Apple Vision Pro uses a common technology that is at the core of some of the health warnings about the device. Here's what that technology is, why it's crucial to the headset, and why it may cause problems for some users.appleinsider.com
I’m a bit curious – what is included in what count as reality then and where goes the line? No books that deal with fiction allowed?
I think fantasy gives more value to life, but I also think that there should be balance to things and we shouldn’t let it take over too much. Must be able to handle both fiction and fact.
Biologically, we are attuned to non-verbals. Would you marry someone you chatted with online or would you prefer to meet them in person first?
Humans are social beings and fantasy, while good for imagination with books and the like, is terrible when it limits reality.
The definition of addiction is "physically and mentally dependent on a particular substance, and unable to stop taking it without incurring adverse effects." If we are dependent on VR and run to it because life is boring or depressing, that is the problem. Too many people run to the "internet world" to get away from reality. We should spend more face time (pun intended) with real people; it's healthier and brings about healthier interpersonal relationships.
I’m an IT guy. I personally find engineering fascinating, but tech has definitely been introduced to the world at a far greater clip than our biological beings have been able to adapt to it.
I take every opportunity I can to walk away from the tech and get outside or into the garage.
I truly don’t understand the draw some people have to perpetual escapism in the form of video gaming 2+ hours a day, or scrolling endlessly through social media. It’s definitely having mass psychological effects on the world that we haven’t even begun to consider.
That was why I was so happy to see Apple plainly state that eye tracking data would always be private. Other platforms as AR become more the norm (glasses) will rely on advertising, so the entire industry will be awash in manipulation. You can track biological reactions and attention to first serve the ads you want, but you’d also be able to actually manipulate emotions. Something I don’t want capitalism anywhere near in any hellscape future we’re barreling towards.
My mom told me the same thing. She also said staying out in the sun all day was fine.
I'm sure you've reviewed the medical literature to conclude having a screen "right on your eyeballs" has adverse ocular effects and makes the AV Pro a "tech demo." So I guess it's also true of all the other VR headsets used in the military, medicine, and other areas, huh?
Getting back to reality: If the AV Pro causes eyestrain, headaches, or any other symptoms, don't use it at all, or moderate its use. The same advice applies to all displays.