Running Windows 11 on a Mac Discussion [Merged]

[jchap]

Excuse the noob question here, but what is TPM 2.0? A certain security chip maybe? Like the T2 chip in Macs?

Trusted Platform Module.

Just to do your homework for you:

Trusted Platform Module (TPM) technology is designed to provide hardware-based, security-related functions. A TPM chip is a secure crypto-processor that helps you with actions such as generating, storing, and limiting the use of cryptographic keys.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...otection/tpm/trusted-platform-module-top-node

Basically, yes—it's a hardware-based security measure for Windows, something like the T2 chip. Many Windows PCs out in the wild now do not even support or feature this technology. Some actually do, but it needs to be manually enabled by the user in the BIOS. Definitely not as straightforward as on the Mac.

 

[jchap]

Not true. I am currently replying to this using Windows 11 on a late 2015 iMac (native install on an external USB via Hasleo's WinToUSB).

Congratulations. That said, you certainly won't have the benefits of TPM 2.0 when running Windows on Mac hardware, nor can you enjoy the benefits of the T2 chip (which may not even be featured on your 2015 iMac). As I wrote previously in this thread, the Windows partition is quite insecure when running in Boot Camp.

...Of course, you're running Windows off a USB memory stick, so I suppose the discussion is moot...

 

[thefourthpope]

macOS with the addition of third-party window management and control apps like Moom far surpasses anything that Windows has ever offered, and what Windows 11 will offer in this regard. This is a major reason why I always feel confounded whenever I need to go back to Windows.

Windows has gotten better, and there are third-party apps like AquaSnap which sorta-kinda work, but Windows still has a long way to go in terms of offering an organized arrangement of windows. Unless you don't mind the plain-Jane left-right or quarter-size window arrangements, of course.

Sure. I use Mosaic and Magnet to help manage my window situation. But it’s not a native solution from the OS. Apple’s own split screen option is just terrible.

 

[iHorseHead]

Is that The Home or Pro version? If I recall correctly in Windows 10 that question only comes up in Pro. I’d assume the same for 11.

I’m just going off the requirements. the requirements list the home version requiring a Microsoft Account for initial setup.

Both versions.
You don't need a Microsoft account, just like Windows 10

 

[tonyunreal]

This would be surprising as many consumer motherboards from the past couple years do not have TPMs. Truly, though, more and more are so it's possibly.

Most PC motherboards sold in the last 10 years have an option in UEFI settings to enable TPM through the CPU's own implementation (called "Platform Trust Technology" or PTT for Intel, "Firmware Trusted Platform Module" or fTPM for AMD), so as long as the CPU isn't below the lowest specs requirement, they are fine with Windows 11. Consumer laptops might be a little more sophisticated since they usually ship with very basic and hideous UEFI settings interfaces.

The Intel CPUs that Macs ship with have the same security features in the hardware, but they were never enabled (since Apple's T2 provides similar features), nor do we have the option to enable them.

 

[tonyunreal]

Excuse the noob question here, but what is TPM 2.0? A certain security chip maybe? Like the T2 chip in Macs?

Trusted Platform Module - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes its function is similar to the secure enclave feature in the T2 Macs, Apple Silicon Macs and iOS devices.

In practice it could be either a discrete chip that sold separately, implemented through the CPU (most Intel and AMD CPUs released in the last 10 years should have it), or implemented through software (like when you run a Windows virtual machine through Parallels Desktop). But they have to be compatible with Microsoft's TPM 2.0 (rumor says it will lower to 1.2) standard for Windows to take advantage of its security features.

 

[tonyunreal]

Not true. I am currently replying to this using Windows 11 on a late 2015 iMac (native install on an external USB via Hasleo's WinToUSB).

The earliest Windows 11 insider build won't be available until next week. So you were talking about the leaked build floating around since last week with a replaced install.wim to get around the TPM requirement, I presume?

Those workarounds might work for the final builds of Windows 11 when it is released in October, but since you will be bypassing hardware feature checks, It probably won't be official supported by either Microsoft or Apple. People might run into bugs like when they run modified macOS builds that are otherwise unavailable to their Macs.

 

[tonyunreal]

I'm currently running Windows 10 21H1 through Boot Camp. If Microsoft managed to loosen up the TPM requirement for Intel Mac users, or if Apple comes up with a firmware update that enables TPM for us, I will certainly upgrade to Windows 11 (so long as it doesn't break my eGPU setup). Otherwise I'm sticking with whatever the latest version Windows 10 will be.

 

[Marshall73]

It’s mostly just a reskin on windows 10. All the crud is still there underneath the shiny bits. Old control panel, new settings pane. Having to dip into each for different bits. Computer management still the same.

Microsoft have dated the EoL for 10 in 2025. They should have had the balls to draw a line in the sand and release a gutted out windows release, dropping 32 bit and old frameworks, move on from NTFS and release an overall better product which they can build on.

 

[iHorseHead]

I can't wrap my head around people criticising Microsoft like: "It's just a reskin of Windows 10" most of the macOS releases don't really improve much.

 

[11235813]

I can't wrap my head around people criticising Microsoft like: "It's just a reskin of Windows 10" most of the macOS releases don't really improve much.

It's called a reskin when you click on something that they didn't show on the unveiling video and you get the old interface.

Example:

https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/06/23/12/2021-06-23.png

 

[iHorseHead]

It's called a reskin when you click on something that they didn't show on the unveiling video and you get the old interface.

Example:

https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/06/23/12/2021-06-23.png

But what's wrong with it?

 

[Aggedor]

Yeah, maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to be Windows 10 with a centred taskbar? I'm sure there are some behind-the-scenes changes, but running Android apps is of no interest to me.

I used Windows 10 probably more than macOS because of my job, and I have no issues with Windows 10, but it certainly doesn't interest or excite me like macOS does.

As @11235813 mentions above, dig a little deeper and you get some old elements. The depth of legacy material in Windows is sometimes staggering - I was reading a couple of weeks ago that people have found stuff from 1993 still in Windows 10. Just last month, I had to reinstall Windows 10 on another machine after it entered a bluescreen loop, and the initial install from the Windows 10 USB restore failed. I got an error window that had pre-Windows 7 borders, and it asked me to install a DISKETTE. I should have taken a photo of the screen!

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Yeah, maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to be Windows 10 with a centred taskbar? I'm sure there are some behind-the-scenes changes, but running Android apps is of no interest to me.

I used Windows 10 probably more than macOS because of my job, and I have no issues with Windows 10, but it certainly doesn't interest or excite me like macOS does.

As @11235813 mentions above, dig a little deeper and you get some old elements. The depth of legacy material in Windows is sometimes staggering - I was reading a couple of weeks ago that people have found stuff from 1993 still in Windows 10. Just last month, I had to reinstall Windows 10 on another machine after it entered a bluescreen loop, and the initial install from the Windows 10 USB restore failed. I got an error window that had pre-Windows 7 borders, and it asked me to install a DISKETTE. I should have taken a photo of the screen!

Nearly, but not quite. There are some performance improvements as well. But the underlying UI codebase is mostly unchanged.

 

[11235813]

But what's wrong with it?

There's nothing wrong with it. Apple products look designed. Microsoft and Google products look like something a bunch of engineers put together. It's OK.

It's OK to like something for its function. However, Steve Jobs discovered something. People like it when their hardware and software look like they were meticulously designed. They are happier. They are more productive.

IBM: ‘Mac users are happier and more productive’

IBM, which has embraced Apple hardware in a big way, says the employees who use Macs are more likely to stay at the company – and are more productive. The insights came at this weeks Jamf Nation User Conference.

www.computerworld.com

It's still OK to like unpolished things. I'm a big Linux fan. I have several computers running Linux. However, Linux is free. Microsoft charges 199$ for its trainwreck operating system. If they are going to charge for it, it has no business having half of its components looking like an OS from 20 years ago.

 

[iHorseHead]

There's nothing wrong with it. Apple products look designed. Microsoft and Google products look like something a bunch of engineers put together. It's OK.

It's OK to like something for its function. However, Steve Jobs discovered something. People like it when their hardware and software look like they were meticulously designed. They are happier. They are more productive.

IBM: ‘Mac users are happier and more productive’

IBM, which has embraced Apple hardware in a big way, says the employees who use Macs are more likely to stay at the company – and are more productive. The insights came at this weeks Jamf Nation User Conference.

www.computerworld.com

It's still OK to like unpolished things. I'm a big Linux fan. I have several computers running Linux. However, Linux is free. Microsoft charges 199$ for its trainwreck operating system. If they are going to charge for it, it has no business having half of its components looking like an OS from 20 years ago.

But are you well aware that Microsoft can't upgrade things as Apple? They have many users that use older applications and there are many companies out there using older applications.
Are you well aware that many schools and companies use Windows? In fact most of the world does and Microsoft can't afford to destroy their operating system and start from scratch like Apple?

There are many users at many companies that can't upgrade to Big Sur, because not all apps run on it and those apps are internal.
You can send me as many articles as you want, but the fact is that Microsoft rather focuses on businesses.

 

[Kent W]

As mentioned Macs are per default not eligble for Windows 11 upgrade since no TPM is available (TPM 2.0 preferred, but installer accepts down to 1.2).

So far, it seems to be relatively easy to surpass it by just replacing an install check file with the same file from W10 installer. If that's it and the problem is solved and it doesn't show up again as a problem during regular Windows 11 updates then it's fairly OK.

However if this check returns every time there is some significant Windows 11 upgrade or something critical in W11 will depend on it going forward then we will have some problems I assume.

 

[bluecoast]

But are you well aware that Microsoft can't upgrade things as Apple? They have many users that use older applications and there are many companies out there using older applications.
Are you well aware that many schools and companies use Windows? In fact most of the world does and Microsoft can't afford to destroy their operating system and start from scratch like Apple?

There are many users at many companies that can't upgrade to Big Sur, because not all apps run on it and those apps are internal.
You can send me as many articles as you want, but the fact is that Microsoft rather focuses on businesses.

View attachment 1797632

I’d hope that Win11 really does draw a line in the sand and rips away the cruft.

Someday, they have to do this - even if it’s just for better security, battery life etc.

I’d guess that Win10 will be the compatibility release that corporates can trundle along with until the middle of this decade.

By then, I’d imagine that MS will be able to build in lots of on device and cloud virtualisation into Win11 for companies that need to still run software last updated in 2007.

 

[jchap]

But are you well aware that Microsoft can't upgrade things as Apple? They have many users that use older applications and there are many companies out there using older applications.
Are you well aware that many schools and companies use Windows? In fact most of the world does and Microsoft can't afford to destroy their operating system and start from scratch like Apple?

It seems that the discussion between you and @11235813 is confounding (a) design sensibility with (b) backward compatibility.

My view is that you can have still maintain backward compatibility while still having good design aesthetics. @11235813's argument was more about design and aesthetics, not really about the backward compatibility you're talking about. The two issues should be discussed separately.

In fact most of the world does and Microsoft can't afford to destroy their operating system and start from scratch like Apple?

I very seriously doubt that Apple "destroys" its OS and starts from scratch with each new version. I do understand what you're saying about some people relying on older apps that won't run well (or at all) on newer OS versions, though. Windows does seem to do better in that regard, probably because they've maintained 32-bit app support for, well, a very long time, whereas Apple deprecated and then completely removed 32-bit support as of Catalina, I believe.

Personally, I do like it when my old Windows apps still run on newer versions of Windows. The often cannot be frequently said of Mac apps, which often depend on the shifting tides of abandoned frameworks and technologies that Apple experiments with and then obsoletes on a whim. Again, the 32-bit app in a 64-bit world issue rears its head. As for Windows, frankly there are loads of crappy 32-bit apps that run just as poorly on Windows 10 as they did in previous version of Windows. At some point in time, both users and developers have to draw the line and opt for the gains in performance that the newer frameworks provide. I feel that Windows is still largely stuck in the past in that regard, trying to please the users who desperately hold on to legacy apps, and sadly deprioritizing the performance gains that a major change in OS architecture could bring.

 

[Kylo83]

Never thought I would say this but windows 11 and android 12 look amazing it makes me think macos and iOS is years behind mainly in design; nothing has ever changed since 2013

 

[ian87w]

The TPM 2.0 hard requirement means it won't be available for Intel Macs (unless you are virtualizing, of course).

Not to worry. Windows 10 official support ends in 2025, no need to rush for Windows 11.

 

[ian87w]

Never thought I would say this but windows 11 and android 12 look amazing it makes me think macos and iOS is years behind mainly in design; nothing has ever changed since 2013

Windows 11 might look neat from the presentation, but the typical Windows machine will have OEMs' grubby hands putting things like the dreaded McAfee (Rest in Peace) and other OEM software for your "convenience."

Same with Android. The typical out of the box Android experience is horrendous, with each OEM (even Samsung) interrupt the setup screen to install bloatware, and fill the home screen with junk.

The nice aesthetics are only for press images... The feeling would be quickly be replaced with the same annoyances consumers love and hate.

 

[ian87w]

You can still setup an offline account without using Microsoft account. You just pick work and school, and pick “domain only”, and you will be able to create an offline account.

The preliminary notes on Windows 11 is that Windows 11 Home will require Microsoft account and internet connectivity for first time setup.

 

[ian87w]

Sadly no. It is using the same Win 10 codebase, with some tweaks in the UI and performance. There is still stuff in there that dates back to Windows XP and before.

Yup. Windows 11 is just Windows 10 with UI refresh. I don't even understand why Microsoft bothered with a new version number (after the infamous claim that Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows). I believe even many internal codes of Windows 11 still refers itself as Windows 10.

 

[velocityg4]

There's nothing wrong with it. Apple products look designed. Microsoft and Google products look like something a bunch of engineers put together. It's OK.

It's OK to like something for its function. However, Steve Jobs discovered something. People like it when their hardware and software look like they were meticulously designed. They are happier. They are more productive.

IBM: ‘Mac users are happier and more productive’

IBM, which has embraced Apple hardware in a big way, says the employees who use Macs are more likely to stay at the company – and are more productive. The insights came at this weeks Jamf Nation User Conference.

www.computerworld.com

It's still OK to like unpolished things. I'm a big Linux fan. I have several computers running Linux. However, Linux is free. Microsoft charges 199$ for its trainwreck operating system. If they are going to charge for it, it has no business having half of its components looking like an OS from 20 years ago.

Although that could simply mean that Macs generally attract the more productive employees. Rather than making them more productive.

The data would be more valid if they randomly assigned macOS and Windows computers. If they want to keep employee choice. They'd need to measure before and after. How much did their productivity change by moving from Windows vs the amount productivity changed for Windows users by simply getting a new computer?