Not sure it's semantic gymnastics.
The idea that anything is being cropped has seemed bizarre to me from the outset.
Why would Apple go to the trouble of making a 48MP image if they're just going to delete half of it.
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Other The iPhone 15 2X telephoto scam
- Thread starter cicalinarrot
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The idea that anything is being cropped has seemed bizarre to me from the outset.
Why would Apple go to the trouble of making a 48MP image if they're just going to delete half of it.
Well, you seem to think that zoom can only be digital or optical.
It has been explained to you many times, by many different people, that the iPhone 15 is not doing digital zoom to produce its 2x images.
So if it's not digital... what are you left with?
The explanation is still bs. Its Digital crop or zoom. And the upsampling if u think is needed per definition happens on your screen when u watch it
If you're zooming in on your own screen, you can't claim that the camera did the digital zoom. That's stupid.
If I look at a professional photograph of some wildlife that was taken using a telephoto lens, and I zoom in on it using my computer, does that mean the photographer used digital zoom instead of optical zoom? Man, I didn't know I had so much power! LOL.
So you think they're doing... digital zoom?
Let me get this straight... the iPhone 15 has a lens that focuses an image onto a 24 megapixel section of sensor, which gets read out into a 12 megapixel image file.
And you think that's digital zoom.
The iPhone 14 Pro, to take an example, has its "3x" lens that focuses an image onto a 12 megapixel sensor, which gets read out into a 12 megapixel image file.
And you think that's optical zoom.
Can you explain to me the difference that makes one digital zoom and the other one optical zoom?
The 12MP photo is 4032 x 3024.
That’s higher resolution than the iPhone screen, and higher resolution than a 4K display.
There is no need to zoom in to see it full screen. If you view it at actual size, it’s larger than the screens.
Well I tried to explain multiple times but failed.
If u are using the same sensor with the same lense: one time you get full 48MP (1x) and the second time (2x) you get 1/4 of the resolution it’s digital crop /zoom
Good night
I have a few questions for the OP:
- If the iPhone Pro had added a forth camera that used the exact same lens as the main/1x camera along with a "new" 12 MP sensor having the same overall aspect ratio and identical pixels, would it produce an image identical in every way to the 48 MP main camera when that is set to 2x "zoom?" (spoiler... the answer is YES)
- Would this hypothetical forth camera be called, or in any way use "digital zoom?" (spoiler... the answer is NO)
- So if this hypothetical forth camera is strictly optical, and is indistinguishable from Apple's 2x 12MP "camera," how are they different (spoiler... they're NOT)
No, unfortunately we don't get ProRAW- but what they did say we get on the base 15 is the ability to take 48mp images in HEIF format.... so it'll be a 48 mp processed image- but you still have to go to the Pro to truly get ProRAW.
I think that's a decent compromise this time around- if I can take full 48mp images, and crop down to the center portion for say, a 24 mp image (or use the 2x option being discussed on this thread, which would provide an image the same quality as 1x on a regular iPhone 14, 13, 12, etc.), I am happy and don't need to spend the extra $$ for the Pro.
Third party camera apps should do the trick. The free version of the Lightroom app let me capture RAW from an far back as the iPhone 7 days
. Though that particular option only saves it in the universal .dng RAW file format. It should be readable by most photo editing software where you can then convert it to a .jpg, .tiff, etc.
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Yeah, great point! No sure how RAW images from that app compare to what you get with ProRAW, but I am sure it's a good substitute instead of spending more just to get ProRAW with the Pro.Third party camera apps should do the trick. The free version of the Lightroom app let me capture RAW from an far back as the iPhone 7 days
I am so tempted to order the regular 15 tomorrow with the addition of this 2x "zoom" and the ability to take 48mp images... but I am torn between just getting my order in tomorrow and being a part of the launch day crowd to test the phone out for two weeks- or just wait until reviews come in and order later. The former is more fun, but the latter makes more sense, I think. lol
As far as I know, RAW is the unprocessed data read directly from the image sensor. I.e., simply the numerical values of voltage generated by light striking each photo pixel. The only processing done by the phone up to this point is the conversion from analog (voltage) to a number (digital). It does not include the conversion of that data into colorful .jpgs. That is the "secret sauce" unique between all camera/phone makers and once "baked in," is irreversible.
Now RAW file formats, the way those numbers are arranged and stored in a file (like ProRAW), vary from company to company (Canon vs Nikon vs Apple...). I'm not totally sure, but I assume apps like Lightroom get direct access to the camera's raw data pipeline since is worked with older iPhone without ProRAW capability.
UPDATE: Traditional RAW and ProRAW are not exactly the same. Apparently ProRAW does store some extra information over traditional raw that allows Apple to use its signature computational photography features. Apple worked with Adobe to add ProRAW-specific data to the DNG specification. So post capture editing like applying portrait mode effects after the picture is taken is probably not available with the Lightroom generated .dng format. It's possible, but I would highly recommend you research it further to make sure Lightroom or any other app can do that. A non-ProRAW raw format will still provide maximum sharpness and dynamic range data, but you may still have to go with the iPhone 15 Pro to get the full ProRAW editing capabilities either on the phone or with ProRAW capable programs... YMMV
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Yeah- the difference is that ProRAW still uses HDR with this, so though the images contain more unprocessed data- they still have the stacked images across the exposure spectrum (HDR), making them a bit more advanced and seemingly better exposures than you'd get with a regular RAW file in another app (which is more of the true/pure form of a RAW file).
MR Forums: Come for the clickbait headlines, stay for the tenacious unwillingness to listen to those who are trying to challenge your assertions with facts.
Several here have replied to OP in good faith, using very valid and appropriate photographic explanations and comparisons of the very principles being discussed. They have been met with disregard, at best. In one case, OP even said a reply (which accurately summed up the reasons why their core assertion wasn't accurate) was too long to read. It was part of one paragraph.
Maybe this helps: think of the imaging abilities in the new Pro Max as being three different cameras that use some shared hardware. Thinking there is only "one camera" in an iPhone these days is applying decade-old thinking to this design.
Several here have replied to OP in good faith, using very valid and appropriate photographic explanations and comparisons of the very principles being discussed. They have been met with disregard, at best. In one case, OP even said a reply (which accurately summed up the reasons why their core assertion wasn't accurate) was too long to read. It was part of one paragraph.
Maybe this helps: think of the imaging abilities in the new Pro Max as being three different cameras that use some shared hardware. Thinking there is only "one camera" in an iPhone these days is applying decade-old thinking to this design.
That is how I understand it. They are using a 12 megapixel cropped area of the 48 megapixel sensor. So it is 2X telephoto at 12 megapixels. They are not scaling it back up to 48 megapixels. It’s more similar to a field of view crop on APS-C vs Full Frame DSLRs. I don’t know if I would call it an optical zoom but I certainly wouldn’t refer to it as a digital zoom.
No iPhone has ever had optical zoom anyway, not in any conventional understanding of the term, so I think Apple is in the clear here. Earlier I called it the "practical equivalent" of optical zoom.
this is not complicated.
optical zoom is using a different lens
digital zoom is using software without changing the hardware
And no, word meanings don't change over time. To the upset of advertising execs.....
this is a digital zoom, and should have been marketed as one
optical zoom is using a different lens
digital zoom is using software without changing the hardware
And no, word meanings don't change over time. To the upset of advertising execs.....
this is a digital zoom, and should have been marketed as one
Nonsense.
As I posted above, imagine that I have two fixed-lens cameras. Can you say that I have one camera with a zoom lens? No. Of course not. I have two cameras and neither has a zoom lens.
Optical zoom requires a zoom lens. No iPhone has ever had a zoom lens. There's a strong argument to be made that no iPhone has ever offered optical zoom.
From the user's perspective, they have offered the practical equivalent of a zoom lens. As long as you're zooming in by certain fixed ratios. But the point is that you're wrong, optical zoom doesn't mean "using a different lens."
Digital zoom requires upsampling. Apple is not doing upsampling. Therefore it's not digital zoom. This is easy stuff.
I think you are confused, a zoom lens is a lens which can represent multiple focal lengths
an optical telephoto either has a proper zoom lens or a different lens > ff 50mm
anything else is digital - it is indeed very simple
Your iPhone 6S is really great, hold onto it! Headphone jack and lightweight design are unspeakables to Apple these days
I am actually looking at it right now and was just considering going another year! I really hate the camera though. And I've dropped it in water twice. Last time discolored the screen a bit, and brightness took a hit... has a bluish tint now. It's seen some action!Your iPhone 6S is really great, hold onto it! Headphone jack and lightweight design are unspeakables to Apple these days
why do you hang on this upscaling? this is not part of the digital zoom and just sometimes applied afterwards.
from Wikipedia: "Some camera firmwares store lossily digitally zoomed images with accordingly reduced dimensions (width and height) rather than upscaling it to the original raster resolution. "
