U.S. Department of Justice in 'Early Stages' of Drafting Possible Antitrust Lawsuit Against Apple

[q64ceo]

So what does that mean?

Yay or nay on Meta removing their apps from the App Store?

And we still have to hear from Spotify, Epic Games, Match Group, Basecamp, and Tile...

Apple asks for a share of Facebook's revenue. Facebook says no. Not even two years later Apple releases software that harms Facebook revenue.

That's an anti-trust lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

[Rocko99991]

...and stock takes a dive.

 

[robd003]

Apple should just allow side-loading but prompt people with "privacy report updates" to actively let them know what is going on.

I wish they could have a multi-tiered developer license based on number of users with an exemption for open source apps. If Apple Pay was effectively free but they still allowed 3rd party solutions they could probably get around the anti-trust issues.

 

[ThailandToo]

Nice platitude, but that's really got nothing to do with this.


They aren't a monopoly. There are other tablet and phone makers with other operating systems. People are free to choose which ones they like.


This is correct, and this is what has happened. You've contradicted yourself here. You're arguing for the government to intervene which is the opposite of this statement.


Bull. You knew exactly how it functioned when you were buying it and it does exactly that. Just because you buy a supercar that can go 200+ MPH doesn't mean that you've been sold a raw deal when the speed limit is 55.


The M1 is not a paperweight. Even if it's not being used to 100% of it's potential in an iPad, it's still doing exactly as it was designed and marketed. If you don't like what they're offering, seek out an alternative.

Why don’t we just come back and discuss the changes in three years. It doesn’t matter what you or I think. It matters what regulators do. And they need to do to stop the greed and dictation of Apple. It’s just like the MacBook argument. We can install anything we want on a MacBook, but Apple has slowly closed that system down by eliminating 32-bit apps now m1/M2 SoCs only. Apple wants to control. And the problem is when they’re controlling vertically, it’s regulators jobs to stop that control.

You’re defending Apple. Most people call that sheep. Maybe you’re an AAPL investor then it makes sense for you to want no regulation and Apple to continue its monopolistic methods of limiting anyone from doing what they want and ensuring Apple gets a cut and 100% control. That’s not ethically responsible.

So let’s just check back in three years and see who was right. Because I would put my money on EU and US Regulators every time! It’s Microsoft all over again. Microsoft got harsh regulation that Apple has overpowered and overstepped what Microsoft did in every way.

The manipulation to put Google in the search for $billions$, the inability to install apps we want to install and use, and the total control over developers and development all hurt competition.

So three years we check back. I put it on my calendar. Let’s see who’s right. Want to place a wager on it, send me a DM. I say Apple no longer has a monopoly of its App Store at the very least. And I say the iPad will be opened up. Developers will have a workaround. And unfortunately, they will not be required to provide an Apple-App-Store solution. So companies like Facebook will require side loading. And that’s what will lead to problems. If Apple just lost the greed bit, they could keep control. It’s the overwhelming greed that leads Apple into so much trouble here.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Apple asks for a share of Facebook's revenue. Facebook says no. Not even two years later Apple releases software that harms Facebook revenue.

That's an anti-trust lawsuit waiting to happen.

Right... but what happens after the anti-trust lawsuit?

As a consumer... what changes will I see?

Will Apple be forced to allow 3rd-party app stores in which I will have to visit multiple stores to download apps? That doesn't would like a win for me.

I'm just concerned about how things affect me. I'm not running a multi-billion dollar social network, music service, or dating service.

Considering it isn't consumers who are asking for all these changes... I'd love to know how consumers could be affected by these changes.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Gasu E.]

Apple only did the privacy changes after their attempts to extort money out of Facebook failed

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

[q64ceo]

Right... but what happens after the anti-trust lawsuit?

As a consumer... what changes will I see?

Will Apple be forced to allow 3rd-party app stores in which I will have to visit multiple stores to download apps? That doesn't would like a win for me.

I'm just concerned about how things affect me. I'm not running a multi-billion dollar social network, music service, or dating service.

Considering it isn't consumers who are asking for all these changes... I'd love to know how consumers could be affected by these changes.

Impossible for me to know the future. Can't really comment on what it would mean in 10 years from now.

And why wouldn't it be a win for you to have alternative stores? If you own a Mac like I do, the ability to download applications from other places (like Steam) isn't a bad thing. Android allows for other app stores, yet because Google's Appstore (Google Play) is the default appstore 99%+ of all app downloads are from Google Play. You don't have to use third party app stores if you don't want to do so. You aren't being harmed by macOS's open platform. So why would you think you would be by an open iPhone platform? Are you concerned about security? I've never had a virus on my Mac. And I doubt 99% of folks have.

 

[q64ceo]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

You think that Apple would have done anything to harm Facebook revenue if they were being given a share of Facebook revenue?

It's incredibly unlikely. We live in a capitalist society. It would be against Apple's interest to do that.

 

[Michael Scrip]

And why wouldn't it be a win for you to have alternative stores? If you own a Mac like I do, the ability to download applications from other places (like Steam) isn't a bad thing.

My main computing platform is Windows on a desktop... though I do own an M1 Macbook Air for travel duties.

I know whenever I get a new Windows PC or wipe and reformat... I spend quite a lot of time downloading dozens of programs and little utilities from their various websites. It would be nice if they all came from one store. (Windows Store sucks...)

Android allows for other app stores, yet because Google's Appstore (Google Play) is the default appstore 99%+ of all app downloads are from Google Play. You don't have to use third party app stores if you don't want to do so.

That's a good point. Google allows 3rd-party app stores... and yet hardly any developers do it.

What if the same thing happens on iOS? What if the official Apple App Store is still where 99%+ of iOS apps come from?

All this time filing lawsuits and arguing on forums... for hardly anything to change. People might stick to the App Store.

Basically:

- Multiple stores on Android --> Everyone just uses one store

- One store on iOS --> OMG we need more stores! This is an outrage!!!

It's just funny.

 

[ksec]

You got your guys in there and this is how they pay you back.

Its all Progressive until money is involved, then everyone's a Republican. The irony....

I dont entirely agree but it is a nice way of putting it.

 

[Powerguru]

Very business friendly move by Department of Justice. Haha. Typical Dem…ts.

 

[ksec]

The comments here are disappointing.

Where are the Pull out of the US comments?

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Until popular apps get removed from the App Store... and are put into their own stores or downloaded from the developer's website.

You can bet Meta will immediately put Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp in their own store... so they could put all sorts of data-stealing code in their apps since they don't have to be checked by Apple's App Review anymore.

Remember... Meta lost $10 billion when Apple introduced all their new privacy changes.

I imagine Meta's apps will be full of tracking if people can just download apps from their store or website.

That's what people are worried about.

😲

If that's your attitude to fb, insta, and whatsapp, then why do you even care? Surely you don't use them regardless of where you download them from?

All you anti-sideloading crowd behave like you've never even heard of macOS, and aren't aware that it does, and always has, allowed sideloading, and the world of Mac users hasn't collapsed because of it.

But, but, but... iPhones is... diiiiiiiiffereeeeeeent. Oh please, spare me.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Not as effectively as we can now. Epic will purchase exclusivity rights to apps, this is a given. Popular apps will move out of the App Store to bypass the privacy policies in place. Right now I have a choice between a complete walled garden and an open system (Android). If this happens, I will no longer have this choice.

Unless someone can point me to a law or rule that states any and ALL iOS apps must ALSO be on the App Store, this will break the walled garden.

Yep, so you will still be able to choose to only download apps in the Apple App Store.

It will be perfect for you, as you will assume that any developer avoiding the App Store is thus avoiding the privacy walls.

It will be perfect for me, because I can download whatever the hell I want, without Apple nannying me.

Everyone will be happy. (except you, because people like me having a choice will still make you angry).

 

[ian87w]

Sometimes I wonder what’s the definition of anti trust. Vertical integration is not illegal, and plenty of other traditional businesses that are more harmful and less competitive than Apple. But of course, being one of the richest company does put a target on Apple’s back.

 

[mikethemartian]

Very business friendly move by Department of Justice. Haha. Typical Dem…ts.

AT&T was torn asunder during the Reagan administration and IBM was placed under their 1956 consent decree during the Eisenhower administration.

 

[I7guy]

The comments here are disappointing.

Where are the Pull out of the US comments?

There are the win the lawsuit comments. Of course the DOJ doesn’t win ‘em all and many of them just settle.

 

[I7guy]

AT&T was torn asunder during the Reagan administration and IBM was placed under their 1956 consent decree during the Eisenhower administration.

And look at the telecom industry today in the US by what happened 40 years ago. It’s almost as if the major three are in collusion.

 

[seek3r]

Because SMS is so great…

I mean both SMS and RCS are trash, you’re both right

 

[mikethemartian]

And look at the telecom industry today in the US by what happened 40 years ago. It’s almost as if the major three are in collusion.

Personally I lean strongly Libertarian so I’m for free markets but antitrust laws have been federal law in the US for about 100 years and I haven’t heard very many people complain about them. The fact that I may have disagreed with what was done to AT&T and IBM doesn’t change the fact that it was done and it gave opportunities to companies like Apple and Microsoft to become giants themselves and essentially replace them so I’m not going to shed a tear when their turn comes around.

 

[Devin Breeding]

It's better than using something made in 1990. I want to be able to send HQ media to/from my Android friends and family and its appalling (although obvious why) Apple wont give us a better experience here.

I send my Android contacts full quality files by sharing the iCloud link. Not as intuitive but it works fine.

 

[webkit]

Apple (with iOS) and Google (with Android) have a duopoly in mobile OS with Apple/iOS having the largest share in the U.S.. The government is trying to make the mobile OS market as open and competitive as possible, just as they would and have done in other monopoly, duopoly or oligopoly markets. If consumers still end up deciding they want to use one app store, one browser engine, etc. fine, at least the open market decided that and not a restrictive walled garden.

 

[macjoshua]

More choice isn’t necessarily a good thing. Most phone users are idiots and will be easily duped by malware.

 

[Beautyspin]

At what security cost though? The fact that they'd have to make this a possibility inherently makes iOS less secure.

I don't see why people want this so bad anyways. It'll fail miserably. 99.5% of people won't be bothered to use another app store. So these alternatives will try for a while then give up the ghost.

It might not be so cut and dried. It is true that on Android phones, people do not use alternate stores much, but that is because on Android phones there are not as many restrictions as there are on iOS. Even then, Android users have to either sideload or use alternate stores to install some apps such as system-wide ad blockers. People do not use alternate stores much because it is easy to go to the developer's website and download the apks and install them, if required. Since that is not the case with iOS, people will be forced to use alternate stores that allow more apps.

 

[Beautyspin]

Not as effectively as we can now. Epic will purchase exclusivity rights to apps, this is a given. Popular apps will move out of the App Store to bypass the privacy policies in place. Right now I have a choice between a complete walled garden and an open system (Android). If this happens, I will no longer have this choice.

Unless someone can point me to a law or rule that states any and ALL iOS apps must ALSO be on the App Store, this will break the walled garden.

Until now, Apple was the one that was rejecting app submissions. Now, the shoe is on the other foot. Apps may reject Apple's Appstore unless Apple offers some incentives or comes crawling to them. How the tables will have turned.